Advance Coatings Wiki - User contributions [en]

Foam Cutter

2026-04-07T11:49:22Z

Advance: /* Citrus Oil Dissolving Polystyrene Foam */

It's easy to make a foam cutter out of only Nichrome resistance wire and an Adjustable Power Supply. Foam cutters are well documented online, and you will find no shortage of videos and articles. Here is my first test of these.

==Items Needed==
* Nichrome / Resistance Wire
* Voltage source, Ideally an Adjustable Power Supply
* Frame to hold the wire
* Styrofoam

===Details of Items===
====Wire====
When buying the Nichrome wire, you are dealing with fairly small wire. You don't want to buy wire that is too thick, as there will be no resistance, and the wire will just short your PSU. On the other hand you don't want to buy wire that is too thin, as it will be more likely to break. I bought 30 feet of 28 Gauge wire on ebay (4 ohms per foot), and it was about $7 delivered. This turned out to be a good size, and I guessed correctly when purchasing for the first time. But I'm also a bit of a wire collector, so I had some insight as to what would and wouldn't work. Experience with magnet wire will help here. It's possible to purchase Nichrome wire from official channels, as well if you are worried about quality (general Industrial distributors such as Mcmaster, or the electronics distributors, Mouser, Farnell's, Digikey). It's easy to find online. It's also very cheap. If you keep wire in inventory, there's no reason not to have some Nichrome wire. You can also salvage it from hair dryers, hot air guns, and portable heaters. There are a variety of common appliances that use resistance wire per [[Foam_Cutter#Products_that_Have_Resistance_Wire]].

Note that there are calculators online to determine voltage, length, and temperature for Nichrome wire. But it is so cheap, you can also just buy a couple of gauges and try them out. See the note in External Links below.

====Power Supply====
For the Power Supply, It's best to start with an Adjustable Power Supply, set the current to 1A or so, and then ramp up the voltage to where the wire just starts to cut through the styrofoam. I found with my PSU that with the 28 gauge wire of about half a foot, that 3V was enough to get the wire to cut through foam. There's no need for the wire to be glowing red or anything dramatic. It should at a voltage just slightly above where it is a bit hot to the touch through a latex or nitrile glove. If you only have a fixed 3.3V or 5V PSU, you are running things a little more dangerously, though it will likely be OK. So a 5V Power Brick of say 1A should work in a pinch. However, Variable Voltage Supplies can be found for <$50 and any type of lab or workshop should have one. I purchased mine for $30 from a local electronics surplus store (he has since closed down his storefront, but he still has an ebay store here: https://www.ebay.com/str/electronicsurplusservices (Manchester, NH)).

====Frame====
For the frame, I glued together some non-conductive wood, let it sit overnight, and then screwed down some washers over a piece of cut copper tubing. The wire is wrapped around the screw, and the washers have it make contact. The leads from the PSU connect to the copper tubing. This is just a proof of concept. To start, it doesn't matter what you use, as long as it is non conductive. It's just to demonstrate the viability of Nichrome wire to melt styrofoam.

====Styrofoam====
You can purchase small pieces of styrofoam from art stores for $4 or so (2024 dollars). For a test, these should work fine. I used traditional coffee cup styrofoam (Polystyrene) and not other types of plastic foam that look similar but are not styrofoam.

==Images==
<gallery widths=300px heights=200px>
File:Styrofoam burner test video.webm|Video Demonstration
</gallery>

==Conclusion==
A foam cutter is a trivial but useful tool to use for cutting styrofoam. If you are working with fiberglass, and don't already have one of these, you are missing out. While this revision 1 was a quick hack, it is extremely easy to use, easy to make, and I think it will become a standard tool in my arsenal for glassing, whenever I am using styrofoam to make small parts. Also consider it for other applications, where styrofoam or other similar products may be applicable. For example, I needed some filler for a hole in the flooring. I could use styrofoam, cut with this tool, and then wood putty over it instead of bothering to cut a piece of hardwood or pine as the filler block.

===CNC===
There are two notes with regards to foam cutting, and cnc. One is that you can make a CNC foam cutter, but you will be limited as to what shapes you can make, as wire can not detail like a mill. For a CNC mill and styrofoam, Here is an example of a 7' x 3' long tortoise one of our customer's created for us as a gift. Notice the fine details and features possible on the styrofoam. (Please excuse the unfinished gelcoat work.). For fine detail, a mill may be a better tool. In fact, you might want to use both. A wire to cut large pieces off (even manually), followed by a mill.
<gallery widths=300px heights=200px>
File:Cnc tortoise.jpg|CNC Milled Tortoise. 7' x 3' roughly.
</gallery>

==Tips/Techniques==
===Curing Notes===
Do not use too much [[Methyl_Ethyl_Ketone_Peroxide | MEKP]]. For styrofoam, you want it to cure cool, which means it must cure slowly. Less MEKP will achieve this (but not so little as to not cure).

===Products that Have Resistance Wire===
Llama 3.3 70B AI lists the following products as sources of Resistance Wire:

<pre>
Here are some products that use resistance wire to generate heat:

Electric blankets
Heating pads
Hand dryers
Radiant floor heaters
Electric baseboard heaters
Portable heaters
Infrared heaters
Heat lamps
Smokers and BBQ heaters
Laboratory hot plates
3D printer heat beds
Electric grills
Slow cookers
Electric skillets
Waffle irons
Panini presses
Electric thermoses
Car heaters and defrosters
Heated seats and steering wheels
Heat wraps and warm compresses

These products use resistance wire to generate heat for various purposes, including comfort, cooking, and industrial applications.
</pre>
Note that the gauge of resistance wire in these products will of course differ, and since the wire is so cheap online, you may just want to buy it for your application. But it's useful to be able to collect the wire from things that might otherwise be thrown away (i.e. hot air guns, hair dryers).

===Electric Hot Knife===
You should be able to make one sided cuts by heating up a butter knife. There are also of course, commercial products that look a bit like soldering irons but with a dull blade on one side. Arbitrary shapes can be made into the 'blade'. There are larger ones, as well as smaller size blades, comparable to exacto knives. It should be possible to make one with some resistance wire and metal, though specifying the proper size metal and wire may require testing. There are beekeeper ones that connect directly to a battery (6 or 12V) which may be more future proof.

===Citrus Oil Dissolving Polystyrene Foam===
It is possible to dissolve styrofoam with certain Citrus Oils. We had a bottle of some Orange Oil product hanging around the lab from https://citrusdepot.net/ (see photo below) which mentioned that it did this. I ran a test, and it worked as described. This is also documented online, for example https://csef.usc.edu/History/2012/Projects/J1001.pdf or https://duckduckgo.com/?t=h_&q=citrus+oil+extract+styrofoam&ia=web One thing that comes to mind, is that you could make a mold around styrofoam, and then dissolve it. Though I have not yet tested this in practice. Note that this oil can be noxious after a period of time (at first it is pleasant, but it gets old), so take care not to spill the orange extract in living areas.
<gallery widths=200px heights=150px>
File:CitrusOil 1 Citrus Depot dot net.jpeg
File:CitrusOil 2 Citrus Depot dot net.jpeg
</gallery>

===Polystyrene Cubes and Blocks===
It's easy to purchase styrofoam cubes online. These 2x2x2 or 3x3x3 can be used like bricks to prototype anything. And if you have a cnc or want larger pieces, then you are looking at styrofoam blocks or sheets.
<gallery widths=300px heights=200px>
File:Styrofoam blocks.png|A web search for "styrofoam cubes" comes up with many affordable options, even for a hobbyist.
</gallery>

==External Links==
* https://www.jacobs-online.biz/index.htm - If you are interested in reading more about Nichrome Resistance Wire, this may be a good place to start. There are also dozens, if not hundreds of calculators online.

Catalyst Measuring Syringes

2026-03-01T13:08:53Z

Advance: /* Find a Standard Quantity */

You may purchase Catalyst measuring syringes from us, or on your own, and these are useful when dealing with small amounts of resin and catalyst. For example, when using small amounts of Polyester resin, it's easy to overshoot the amount of MEKP needed, causing an overreaction leading to undesirable smoke/steam from the resin, and a higher temperature / exothermic reaction. This may also burn what you are working on. Syringes make it easy to get reliable amounts of MEKP for the resin to avoid this.
==Tips==
===Avoid Splashing MEKP As It Is Corrosive===
With at least one of these syringes, there is the tendency for the MEKP to splash out, when
near the very end of the plunger (when it's near empty). Just exercise some caution. MEKP, while not extremely dangerous (the type we sell is diluted to some degree), is still corrosive to skin, and you want to avoid getting it on yourself. You will also want to avoid spilling it on the floor, somewhat more so than you would for acetone or resin.
[[File:Syringe 10ml.jpg|200px|thumb|right|Syringes such as these can be found quite cheap ($1) in places such as the pharmacy or the pharmacy section of a grocery store.]]

===Find a Standard Quantity===
I find myself working in 1 quart, or 1/2 quart amounts of resin at a time, and have a general understanding that 1 quart of resin will require about 7 ml on the syringe of MEKP for a cure of a thin film (8040), and 3 ml for curing a large mass slowly (though I will also use 7 ml to cure a full half quart relatively quickly). Generally, you will want to run a test before adding lots of resin and catalyst.

===Flush Syringe with Acetone After Using===
While not required, it will likely extend the life of the syringe.

===Size the Syringe to Your Application===
For 1 quart of (let's assume we are using 8040 general purpose) resin, you will want a 20ml syringe. This 10ml syringe I use for half quarts. Note that it's nice to have different sizes of syringes, as you can get finer control with the smaller syringes. They are lighter and easier to use.

===Different Syringes for Resin vs. Catalyst===
Note that you can also use syringes for mixed resin, in certain applications. See: [[Gelcoat_Anchoring]] for one such example. In order to do this, you will want to get a syringe with a larger opening on the end, as resin is thicker.

==Images==
<gallery>
File:Syringe 1.jpg|200px|thumb||
File:Syringe 2.jpg|200px|thumb||
File:Syringe 3.jpg|200px|thumb||
</gallery>

[[Category:Products]]
[[Category:MiscellaneousParts]]

Catalyst Measuring Syringes

2026-03-01T13:08:25Z

Advance: /* Find a Standard Quantity */

You may purchase Catalyst measuring syringes from us, or on your own, and these are useful when dealing with small amounts of resin and catalyst. For example, when using small amounts of Polyester resin, it's easy to overshoot the amount of MEKP needed, causing an overreaction leading to undesirable smoke/steam from the resin, and a higher temperature / exothermic reaction. This may also burn what you are working on. Syringes make it easy to get reliable amounts of MEKP for the resin to avoid this.
==Tips==
===Avoid Splashing MEKP As It Is Corrosive===
With at least one of these syringes, there is the tendency for the MEKP to splash out, when
near the very end of the plunger (when it's near empty). Just exercise some caution. MEKP, while not extremely dangerous (the type we sell is diluted to some degree), is still corrosive to skin, and you want to avoid getting it on yourself. You will also want to avoid spilling it on the floor, somewhat more so than you would for acetone or resin.
[[File:Syringe 10ml.jpg|200px|thumb|right|Syringes such as these can be found quite cheap ($1) in places such as the pharmacy or the pharmacy section of a grocery store.]]

===Find a Standard Quantity===
I find myself working in 1 quart, or 1/2 quart amounts of resin at a time, and have a general understanding that 1 quart of resin will require about 7 ml on the syringe of MEKP for a cure of a thin film (8040), and 3 ml for curing a large mass slowly (though I will also use 7 ml to cure a half quart relatively quickly). Generally, you will want to run a test before adding lots of resin and catalyst.

===Flush Syringe with Acetone After Using===
While not required, it will likely extend the life of the syringe.

===Size the Syringe to Your Application===
For 1 quart of (let's assume we are using 8040 general purpose) resin, you will want a 20ml syringe. This 10ml syringe I use for half quarts. Note that it's nice to have different sizes of syringes, as you can get finer control with the smaller syringes. They are lighter and easier to use.

===Different Syringes for Resin vs. Catalyst===
Note that you can also use syringes for mixed resin, in certain applications. See: [[Gelcoat_Anchoring]] for one such example. In order to do this, you will want to get a syringe with a larger opening on the end, as resin is thicker.

==Images==
<gallery>
File:Syringe 1.jpg|200px|thumb||
File:Syringe 2.jpg|200px|thumb||
File:Syringe 3.jpg|200px|thumb||
</gallery>

[[Category:Products]]
[[Category:MiscellaneousParts]]

Catalyst Measuring Syringes

2026-03-01T13:07:18Z

Advance: /* Tips */

You may purchase Catalyst measuring syringes from us, or on your own, and these are useful when dealing with small amounts of resin and catalyst. For example, when using small amounts of Polyester resin, it's easy to overshoot the amount of MEKP needed, causing an overreaction leading to undesirable smoke/steam from the resin, and a higher temperature / exothermic reaction. This may also burn what you are working on. Syringes make it easy to get reliable amounts of MEKP for the resin to avoid this.
==Tips==
===Avoid Splashing MEKP As It Is Corrosive===
With at least one of these syringes, there is the tendency for the MEKP to splash out, when
near the very end of the plunger (when it's near empty). Just exercise some caution. MEKP, while not extremely dangerous (the type we sell is diluted to some degree), is still corrosive to skin, and you want to avoid getting it on yourself. You will also want to avoid spilling it on the floor, somewhat more so than you would for acetone or resin.
[[File:Syringe 10ml.jpg|200px|thumb|right|Syringes such as these can be found quite cheap ($1) in places such as the pharmacy or the pharmacy section of a grocery store.]]

===Find a Standard Quantity===
I find myself working in 1 quart, or 1/2 quart amounts of resin at a time, and have a general understanding that 1 quart of resin will require about 7 ml on the syringe of MEKP for a cure of a thin film (8040), and 3 ml for curing a large mass slowly. Generally, you will want to run a test before adding lots of resin and catalyst.

===Flush Syringe with Acetone After Using===
While not required, it will likely extend the life of the syringe.

===Size the Syringe to Your Application===
For 1 quart of (let's assume we are using 8040 general purpose) resin, you will want a 20ml syringe. This 10ml syringe I use for half quarts. Note that it's nice to have different sizes of syringes, as you can get finer control with the smaller syringes. They are lighter and easier to use.

===Different Syringes for Resin vs. Catalyst===
Note that you can also use syringes for mixed resin, in certain applications. See: [[Gelcoat_Anchoring]] for one such example. In order to do this, you will want to get a syringe with a larger opening on the end, as resin is thicker.

==Images==
<gallery>
File:Syringe 1.jpg|200px|thumb||
File:Syringe 2.jpg|200px|thumb||
File:Syringe 3.jpg|200px|thumb||
</gallery>

[[Category:Products]]
[[Category:MiscellaneousParts]]

Application Notes

2026-02-27T10:31:15Z

Advance:

This page is WIP, please bear with us.

* [[Hand Lay Up Guide]] - From the Catalog. Instructions on Polyester Resin usage.
* [[Aliphatic Urethane for Hardwood Floor Refinishing]] - 2019-2020 Business Renovations.
* [[Anchoring Cement Application]] - Adhering Threaded Rod to Concrete
* [[Epoxy for Bathroom Bolt Replacement]] - A couple attempts at replacing floor bolts in a rear exit toilet.
* [[Gelcoat Anchoring]] - Using leftover polyester resin gelcoat to anchor (non-load bearing) bolts in the wall.

* [[Cleanliness]] - A little cleanliness will go a long way.

==External Links==
* Mixing resin with conductive materials for better thermal transfer: https://pubs.rsc.org/en/content/articlelanding/2025/ra/d4ra07419j In this example, they are substituting aluminum oxide for silica. Something you could well do with a finished resin (as silica is often used as a last stage filler).

[[Category:Application Notes]]

Application Notes

2026-02-27T10:30:41Z

Advance: /* External Links */

This page is WIP, please bear with us.

* [[Hand Lay Up Guide]] - From the Catalog. Instructions on Polyester Resin usage.
* [[Aliphatic Urethane for Hardwood Floor Refinishing]] - 2019-2020 Business Renovations.
* [[Anchoring Cement Application]] - Adhering Threaded Rod to Concrete
* [[Epoxy for Bathroom Bolt Replacement]] - A couple attempts at replacing floor bolts in a rear exit toilet.
* [[Gelcoat Anchoring]] - Using leftover polyester resin gelcoat to anchor (non-load bearing) bolts in the wall.

* [[Cleanliness]] - A little cleanliness will make a difference.

==External Links==
* Mixing resin with conductive materials for better thermal transfer: https://pubs.rsc.org/en/content/articlelanding/2025/ra/d4ra07419j In this example, they are substituting aluminum oxide for silica. Something you could well do with a finished resin (as silica is often used as a last stage filler).

[[Category:Application Notes]]

Epoxy for Bathroom Bolt Replacement

2026-02-27T10:29:37Z

Advance: /* Hindsight 2026 */

This is a story about trying to replace floor bolts on a rear exit toilet. The first attempt was to use epoxy to put new bolts into a preexisting tiled bathroom floor. The epoxy approach ended up not turning out properly (due to user error), and instead Polyester Resin based Hull and Deck Putty attached to a piece of mild steel and a stainless nut was used instead as an adhesive. Then this also failed, and instead of using any kind of resin here (which was too difficult to adhere to the stainless), simple welding and concrete screws were used. While all of these approaches could potentially work if done properly, the easiest thing was to weld and use concrete screws.

The epoxy approach was not taken seriously enough, the bolts were not put deep enough into the floor, and the measurements were incorrect, the polyester approach was flawed due to differences in bonding between mild steel (which adhered well to the putty) and improperly prepared stainless (which did not stick to the putty). The final approach turned out to be the right answer here. Note that we actually sell a resin designed to work with concrete anchors, but I didn't use that here. That will have to wait for another day. Concrete screws are good enough for an indoor residential toilet.

==Overview==

The toilet has four bolts. Two on the back, and two on the bottom. It is a toilet which exits out the back (a rear outlet toilet). The two bottom bolts have rusted out over time. The two back bolts are still intact. The goal will be to somehow replace the floor bolts. This project did not turn out correctly the first time, so there will be two approaches documented here.

'''Concerns:'''
* The old bolts will be rusted, only until they go into the floor, at which point they will be solid bolts.
* Replacement of the tile/subfloor is not practical. We just want to change out the bolts.
* The new bolts must be set in epoxy/glue/adhesive strong enough to keep the toilet from moving.

==Approach One: Epoxy bolts into the floor==

===Items needed===
* Two Part Epoxy (Part A is base resin. Part B is hardener)
* Acetone (cleanup)
* Brass/Stainless nuts and bolts of appropriate length
* Washers
* Basic tools for removal of toilet (various wrenches, screwdriver, socket set).

===Removal of toilet===
The removal of the toilet here is relatively easy. It required a flat head screwdriver (for tank bolts) and a ratchet set to hold the bolt stead. There are also the drain bolts which require pliers or a wrench. The trickier part is putting it back together, without a leak. Certain parts of the toilet are prone to leaking, so a wax ring (I've been told these are made of beeswax) is used, and some wax put on
any seals that may leak (the bolts that hold the top tank as well as the center top tank outlet are coated with some wax).

===Preparation===
Items required were purchased from the hardware store. This job required at least:
* Brass bolts
* Brass nuts
* stainless or brass washers
* Two Part Epoxy 
And you should have some basic tools, including a hand drill, and drill bits. The plan will be to drill a hole into the ceramic tile, fill the hole with epoxy, let cure, then do at least one more layer of epoxy after the first.

Buy different lengths of bolts. I bought 1.5" and 2". I ended up using the 2". What length to use will depend upon your floor. Also measure the toilet tank bolt hole diameter, and do not buy a bolt bigger than what will fit through the toilet!
[[File:DrillbitsUsedforTiledFloor.JPG|300px|thumb|right|These bits were used to drill into the floor. Ideally, you would have a press not a hand drill, but a hand drill will do the job.]]

===Drilling into Tile===
Drilling into tile seemed easy. The old bolts were still in the tile. I did not remove those, but drilled adjacent to them. Ideally I would've drilled through the old bolts (which were only rusted on top) but this proved too difficult without a drill press to stabilize. I ended up angling the bolts slightly, and tested a fit beforehand to confirm that it would work, by placing the toilet over the bolts which were blue taped into position.

===Epoxy Layering===
After placing the bolts, and mixing / pouring the two part epoxy, I used blue tape to hold the bolts in proper position. After at least 12 hours (I waited overnight) the bolts were checked, confirmed to be firm and then I gambled. I poured the next layer of mixed epoxy onto the base of the bolts, and then placed the toilet back on, while the bolts were still curing. I do not recommend this, but due to time constraints, I wanted to get the toilet back into working order.
[[File:Epoxy_bolt_acetone_to_clean.JPG|300px|thumb|right|Acetone is necessary for cleanup. Here a $2 bottle from the grocery store will do in a pinch, as I didn't have any of the more pure stuff we sell. Caution: Flammable!]]
By carefully placing the toilet, as to not break the first epoxy bond, I was then ready to re-assemble the toilet, and let the 2nd layer of epoxy fully cure. I waited again, overnight.

It should be noted that when placing the first layer of epoxy in the tile, and its subfloor (likely hardy board), that much of the first layer soaked into the subfloor. This was another reason for the 2nd coat. I wanted to ensure the bolts did not come loose. They were cured into the tile, but the left bolt was less so than the right. A 2nd layer, ensured the epoxy was set.

===How Thick Can the Epoxy Be Layered?===
I know from my experiments with silicone molds - not too thick. The epoxy we sell is not for making 3"x3"x3" cubes, it's for using as a protective layer for floors or similar such usage. Maybe 8mm thick is a good place to stay under.

===Cleanup===
Let me emphasize the necessity of acetone for cleanup.

Upon pouring the first layer, there was some overspill from the epoxy, as it settled into the tile/subfloor. This epoxy if not cured, would've put some millimeters on the tile, and possibly upset the toilet from sitting flat. Acetone is the best way to clean 'uncured' epoxy in this situation. It will clean up neatly, and can be purchased from Advance Coatings (better quality) or from Grocery Stores (low quality). See [[Acetone]], for more details.

===Reassembly of toilet===
<pre>
attachment of washer + nut
tighten 'handtight', then finish with a few turns (not too many) with wrench.
cleanup
job complete
</pre>
[[File:DSCN0096.JPG|300px|thumb|right|Bolts Replaced]]

===Approach One Conclusion: 12/2020===
The epoxy bolts weren't placed appropriately, (bad measurement) they were angled slightly, and also due to not drilling deep enough the bolts were not held strongly enough into the floor. So this approach did not pan out in the end.

====What would a plumber do?====
I asked the opinion of a plumber on how to replace these, and he said they would simply drill down into the concrete with longer bolts, from the top of the toilet after installing. I then asked him, what would they do when the toilet needed to be removed, and he said drill even deeper bolts after replacing it. Of course, that can't go on forever, so at some point, you end up through the floor. (This is a limitation of my residence, and not of necessarily all homes). The plumbers are busy men, and they don't have time to make a project out of the bolt replacement, so sometimes their solutions are rushed more than someone with enough time to experiment can do. So let's return back to this problem in 2023.

==Approach Two: 2023 Polyester Putty and Mild Steel ==
The toilet has been mostly ok for the past couple years, but it is not as solid as it should be without floor bolts. I delayed this project for a long time, because I wasn't sure just how I could properly do this, without a repeat of the first approach. I got into welding, and starting buying mild steel (which I will refer to as soft steel for the remainder of this document) at the local metal supermarket, when I realized a more robust solution.

===Plan===
Instead of trying to set bolts in the floor, I would somehow set a nut below the toilet, and then use threaded rod to thread into the nut from above (with the toilet already placed), finally placing a nut on top of the rod to hold the toilet in place. This way I don't have to worry about placement of the toilet bolt without the toilet in place. I can place the nut, adjust it so there is a good fit to the toilet bolt holes, and then set everything in place. (This is a limitation of rear outlet toilets, as you have to set the floor bolts AND the back bolts properly. Where as a normal toilet, you only have to set two bolts. With four bolts there is less margin for error).

To go into details on this approach: I would put a nut on a piece of soft steel with adhesive (in this case I used Polyester Resin putty, although epoxy probably could've been used). and then the soft steel would be held in the tile with some premixed grout (I considered using Putty, but it doesn't bond to ceramic, so grout was a better choice). Any reasonably multi purpose bathroom concrete / tile mix would probably work. Sanded (not non-sanded) grout, should be used.

With a nut securely held below the toilet, you can cut a piece of threaded rod (stainless) and then fit it after the toilet has been
placed, putting another nut on top of it, to hold it in place.

Using threaded rod, instead of bolts was a better solution, as the threaded rod can be cut to size.

===Items Needed===
* Proper eye, ear, and face protection (ideally a welding helmet)
* Angle grinder or bandsaw
* Stainless threaded rod
* Stainless nut
* Adhesive (Polyester Hull and Deck Putty was used here)
* Sanded grout
* Soft (mild) steel bar cut to size
* File or someway to scratch the steel and nut.

===Steps===

# Drill out a part of the soft steel so there is a place for the nut to sit. This is optional, and depends how much space you have below the toilet.
# Mix a small paper cup of putty with some MEKP catalyst.
# Use putty to hold the nut on the soft steel. Make sure not to get any putty on the threads of the nut, or where the threaded rod has to go. However the putty should be over the top of the nut, not just on the sides. If you only put putty on the sides, and it doesn't adhere to the hard stainless, the nut may be able to be pulled upwards.
[[File:Soft steel and stainelss with putty.jpg|150px|thumb|right|Putty adheres to soft steel, but not as well to stainless with just a basic file.]]
# Wait until the putty cures. It should be placed slightly over the top of the nut, but not over the threads. See the pictures.
# Cut threaded rod to an appropriate size for a floor bolt. How long will depend on how low the soft steel and nut will be below the toilet. Because the threaded rod is threaded on, 'after', the toilet is in place, it can be longer than a standard floor bolt.
# Mark off a square where you will remove the tile. It should be sized slightly larger than the piece of soft steel.
# Use an angle grinder, and ideally an abrasive diamond blade (although in a pinch, a standard metal cut off wheel will work. Wear proper protection.) and cut the lines you marked off previously
# Use a hammer and or some type of chisel (A screw driver will work in a pinch) to remove the tile within the square you cut in the previous step. This step will have a lot of flying ceramic pieces, so make sure your glasses are on properly.
# Some measurement of the toilet, and where the bolts will go is now in order. You should be able to place the soft steel w/nut under the toilet, and review that the threaded rod will fit before curing it in place with grout. Use a marker to assist in placement by making lines that intersect where the nut will go.
# Once you are confident the measurements are correct, grout the steel into the floor with the nut.
# Wait for the grout to cure (12-24 hours)
[[File:Soft steel and stainless with putty and grout.jpg|150px|thumb|right|End result, with grout holding steel in place. Note the putty is over the top of the nut to hold it without biting into it.]]
# Place the toilet.
# Put the threaded rod in the floor nuts.
# Put a washer and nut on the threaded rod.

===Notes===
Always place a nut on the threaded rod before cutting it, so you can get the threads properly grooved out after it's cut. Otherwise you will have to use a tap and die set to regroove where it's cut.

Stainless Steel bar could be used, but it's much harder to cut. You will need carbide or proper bits. There are drill bit charts such as the MSC catalog, which show what metals need what type of drill bit.

The putty adheres well to solid steel, but not as much to the stainless (I may have not scratched the stainless nut enough). So in this case, we will make sure to put the putty over the top of the nut to hold it in place.

One advantage of the putty is that it cures faster. Where as you could use grout for everything here, it will take a bit longer for the grout to properly cure. The putty will cure a bit faster than that (I can't speak for full strength, however). Curing speed of the putty will depend on amount of catalyst used, though I try to use less, rather than more.

[[File:Toilet floor bolts Putty not over top of nut.webm||100|]]
[[File:Putty SoftSteel Toilet floor bolts.webm||100|]]

===End Result===
The putty adhered well to the soft steel, but did not adhere as well to the stainless. This may have been due to me not preparing the stainless surface properly. Because it is so hard, you may need to take extra care to scratch off the outside layer. As a result, one of the pieces of steel had the nut fall out and the putty did not hold it in properly. Instead I went with the third and final approach. Third times the charm.

==Best Approach: Steel bar, Concrete screws, and Welding==
* Take a piece of mild steel bar (stainless would be better if you have carbide bits)
* Drill holes in the mild steel around the center, where you will later use concrete screws to hold the steel in the concrete subfloor. A drill press works best.
* Remove the toilet, put it aside.
* Break up the tiles underneath the toilet with a hammer / screwdriver, or angle grinder, or whatever chisel type tools you have available. You want to make rectangles just slightly bigger than the steel bar.
* Position the steel bar under the toilet in the holes prepared.
* Use concrete screws and get it solidly adhered to the floor (you will need an appropriate masonry bit to drill preholes, but any drill should work, you don't necessarily need a concrete / hammer drill. A normal drill is ok. Get extra masonry bits as they break easy (this kind of work should have coolant on the bit, but that's impractical here)). I use 3/16 drill bits and 1/4 concrete screws. The tapcon ones sell separate drill bits, and I've found that the socket tapcon screws are much better than the philips head type. You may need a socket set or a wrench.
* Put the bottom half of the toilet back (make sure it is making a tight seal with the floor or wall flange, if this is a rear exit toilet) and mark with a sharpie where the Toilet holes will go on the soft steel. There should besome space so that the nut or any of the screws won't cause the toilet to stick up from the floor.
* Weld a stainless nut just over the sharpie mark. (protect it from weld spatter)
* Put the toilet back. Make sure it is flush with the floor.
* Thread a cut piece of stainless rod in the toilet hole and into the nut.
* Put another nut w/washer on the rod.

That is the best approach. There is no need to use putty or epoxy. It's best to weld the nut after the toilet is placed, to make
placement easier. Otherwise you may have some headache trying to adjust where the hole will line up with the toilet. A quick internet
search says that toilet floor bolts are not standardized. A flux core welder can be rented from hardware stores if necessary.

I suppose epoxy or resin could be used to hold bolts, but I found that putting a nut below the toilet, and then using threaded rod to go through the toilet bolt hole to the nut below was more modular. For a bottom exit toilet, it may not matter, but for a rear entry toilet, the placement of 4 bolts (instead of just 2) is more difficult, so this is what works for me.

===Hindsight 2026===
I suspect, that the epoxy resin we use is not suitable for holding bolts. It is a type of flooring epoxy. However, anchoring cement or polyester resin in concrete should work better. Though my attempt with a stainless nut and resin here did not work, I did have success with stainless bolts and a concrete wall. Please see [[Gelcoat_Anchoring]].

[[Category:Application Notes]]

Epoxy for Bathroom Bolt Replacement

2026-02-27T10:29:11Z

Advance: /* Hindsight */

This is a story about trying to replace floor bolts on a rear exit toilet. The first attempt was to use epoxy to put new bolts into a preexisting tiled bathroom floor. The epoxy approach ended up not turning out properly (due to user error), and instead Polyester Resin based Hull and Deck Putty attached to a piece of mild steel and a stainless nut was used instead as an adhesive. Then this also failed, and instead of using any kind of resin here (which was too difficult to adhere to the stainless), simple welding and concrete screws were used. While all of these approaches could potentially work if done properly, the easiest thing was to weld and use concrete screws.

The epoxy approach was not taken seriously enough, the bolts were not put deep enough into the floor, and the measurements were incorrect, the polyester approach was flawed due to differences in bonding between mild steel (which adhered well to the putty) and improperly prepared stainless (which did not stick to the putty). The final approach turned out to be the right answer here. Note that we actually sell a resin designed to work with concrete anchors, but I didn't use that here. That will have to wait for another day. Concrete screws are good enough for an indoor residential toilet.

==Overview==

The toilet has four bolts. Two on the back, and two on the bottom. It is a toilet which exits out the back (a rear outlet toilet). The two bottom bolts have rusted out over time. The two back bolts are still intact. The goal will be to somehow replace the floor bolts. This project did not turn out correctly the first time, so there will be two approaches documented here.

'''Concerns:'''
* The old bolts will be rusted, only until they go into the floor, at which point they will be solid bolts.
* Replacement of the tile/subfloor is not practical. We just want to change out the bolts.
* The new bolts must be set in epoxy/glue/adhesive strong enough to keep the toilet from moving.

==Approach One: Epoxy bolts into the floor==

===Items needed===
* Two Part Epoxy (Part A is base resin. Part B is hardener)
* Acetone (cleanup)
* Brass/Stainless nuts and bolts of appropriate length
* Washers
* Basic tools for removal of toilet (various wrenches, screwdriver, socket set).

===Removal of toilet===
The removal of the toilet here is relatively easy. It required a flat head screwdriver (for tank bolts) and a ratchet set to hold the bolt stead. There are also the drain bolts which require pliers or a wrench. The trickier part is putting it back together, without a leak. Certain parts of the toilet are prone to leaking, so a wax ring (I've been told these are made of beeswax) is used, and some wax put on
any seals that may leak (the bolts that hold the top tank as well as the center top tank outlet are coated with some wax).

===Preparation===
Items required were purchased from the hardware store. This job required at least:
* Brass bolts
* Brass nuts
* stainless or brass washers
* Two Part Epoxy 
And you should have some basic tools, including a hand drill, and drill bits. The plan will be to drill a hole into the ceramic tile, fill the hole with epoxy, let cure, then do at least one more layer of epoxy after the first.

Buy different lengths of bolts. I bought 1.5" and 2". I ended up using the 2". What length to use will depend upon your floor. Also measure the toilet tank bolt hole diameter, and do not buy a bolt bigger than what will fit through the toilet!
[[File:DrillbitsUsedforTiledFloor.JPG|300px|thumb|right|These bits were used to drill into the floor. Ideally, you would have a press not a hand drill, but a hand drill will do the job.]]

===Drilling into Tile===
Drilling into tile seemed easy. The old bolts were still in the tile. I did not remove those, but drilled adjacent to them. Ideally I would've drilled through the old bolts (which were only rusted on top) but this proved too difficult without a drill press to stabilize. I ended up angling the bolts slightly, and tested a fit beforehand to confirm that it would work, by placing the toilet over the bolts which were blue taped into position.

===Epoxy Layering===
After placing the bolts, and mixing / pouring the two part epoxy, I used blue tape to hold the bolts in proper position. After at least 12 hours (I waited overnight) the bolts were checked, confirmed to be firm and then I gambled. I poured the next layer of mixed epoxy onto the base of the bolts, and then placed the toilet back on, while the bolts were still curing. I do not recommend this, but due to time constraints, I wanted to get the toilet back into working order.
[[File:Epoxy_bolt_acetone_to_clean.JPG|300px|thumb|right|Acetone is necessary for cleanup. Here a $2 bottle from the grocery store will do in a pinch, as I didn't have any of the more pure stuff we sell. Caution: Flammable!]]
By carefully placing the toilet, as to not break the first epoxy bond, I was then ready to re-assemble the toilet, and let the 2nd layer of epoxy fully cure. I waited again, overnight.

It should be noted that when placing the first layer of epoxy in the tile, and its subfloor (likely hardy board), that much of the first layer soaked into the subfloor. This was another reason for the 2nd coat. I wanted to ensure the bolts did not come loose. They were cured into the tile, but the left bolt was less so than the right. A 2nd layer, ensured the epoxy was set.

===How Thick Can the Epoxy Be Layered?===
I know from my experiments with silicone molds - not too thick. The epoxy we sell is not for making 3"x3"x3" cubes, it's for using as a protective layer for floors or similar such usage. Maybe 8mm thick is a good place to stay under.

===Cleanup===
Let me emphasize the necessity of acetone for cleanup.

Upon pouring the first layer, there was some overspill from the epoxy, as it settled into the tile/subfloor. This epoxy if not cured, would've put some millimeters on the tile, and possibly upset the toilet from sitting flat. Acetone is the best way to clean 'uncured' epoxy in this situation. It will clean up neatly, and can be purchased from Advance Coatings (better quality) or from Grocery Stores (low quality). See [[Acetone]], for more details.

===Reassembly of toilet===
<pre>
attachment of washer + nut
tighten 'handtight', then finish with a few turns (not too many) with wrench.
cleanup
job complete
</pre>
[[File:DSCN0096.JPG|300px|thumb|right|Bolts Replaced]]

===Approach One Conclusion: 12/2020===
The epoxy bolts weren't placed appropriately, (bad measurement) they were angled slightly, and also due to not drilling deep enough the bolts were not held strongly enough into the floor. So this approach did not pan out in the end.

====What would a plumber do?====
I asked the opinion of a plumber on how to replace these, and he said they would simply drill down into the concrete with longer bolts, from the top of the toilet after installing. I then asked him, what would they do when the toilet needed to be removed, and he said drill even deeper bolts after replacing it. Of course, that can't go on forever, so at some point, you end up through the floor. (This is a limitation of my residence, and not of necessarily all homes). The plumbers are busy men, and they don't have time to make a project out of the bolt replacement, so sometimes their solutions are rushed more than someone with enough time to experiment can do. So let's return back to this problem in 2023.

==Approach Two: 2023 Polyester Putty and Mild Steel ==
The toilet has been mostly ok for the past couple years, but it is not as solid as it should be without floor bolts. I delayed this project for a long time, because I wasn't sure just how I could properly do this, without a repeat of the first approach. I got into welding, and starting buying mild steel (which I will refer to as soft steel for the remainder of this document) at the local metal supermarket, when I realized a more robust solution.

===Plan===
Instead of trying to set bolts in the floor, I would somehow set a nut below the toilet, and then use threaded rod to thread into the nut from above (with the toilet already placed), finally placing a nut on top of the rod to hold the toilet in place. This way I don't have to worry about placement of the toilet bolt without the toilet in place. I can place the nut, adjust it so there is a good fit to the toilet bolt holes, and then set everything in place. (This is a limitation of rear outlet toilets, as you have to set the floor bolts AND the back bolts properly. Where as a normal toilet, you only have to set two bolts. With four bolts there is less margin for error).

To go into details on this approach: I would put a nut on a piece of soft steel with adhesive (in this case I used Polyester Resin putty, although epoxy probably could've been used). and then the soft steel would be held in the tile with some premixed grout (I considered using Putty, but it doesn't bond to ceramic, so grout was a better choice). Any reasonably multi purpose bathroom concrete / tile mix would probably work. Sanded (not non-sanded) grout, should be used.

With a nut securely held below the toilet, you can cut a piece of threaded rod (stainless) and then fit it after the toilet has been
placed, putting another nut on top of it, to hold it in place.

Using threaded rod, instead of bolts was a better solution, as the threaded rod can be cut to size.

===Items Needed===
* Proper eye, ear, and face protection (ideally a welding helmet)
* Angle grinder or bandsaw
* Stainless threaded rod
* Stainless nut
* Adhesive (Polyester Hull and Deck Putty was used here)
* Sanded grout
* Soft (mild) steel bar cut to size
* File or someway to scratch the steel and nut.

===Steps===

# Drill out a part of the soft steel so there is a place for the nut to sit. This is optional, and depends how much space you have below the toilet.
# Mix a small paper cup of putty with some MEKP catalyst.
# Use putty to hold the nut on the soft steel. Make sure not to get any putty on the threads of the nut, or where the threaded rod has to go. However the putty should be over the top of the nut, not just on the sides. If you only put putty on the sides, and it doesn't adhere to the hard stainless, the nut may be able to be pulled upwards.
[[File:Soft steel and stainelss with putty.jpg|150px|thumb|right|Putty adheres to soft steel, but not as well to stainless with just a basic file.]]
# Wait until the putty cures. It should be placed slightly over the top of the nut, but not over the threads. See the pictures.
# Cut threaded rod to an appropriate size for a floor bolt. How long will depend on how low the soft steel and nut will be below the toilet. Because the threaded rod is threaded on, 'after', the toilet is in place, it can be longer than a standard floor bolt.
# Mark off a square where you will remove the tile. It should be sized slightly larger than the piece of soft steel.
# Use an angle grinder, and ideally an abrasive diamond blade (although in a pinch, a standard metal cut off wheel will work. Wear proper protection.) and cut the lines you marked off previously
# Use a hammer and or some type of chisel (A screw driver will work in a pinch) to remove the tile within the square you cut in the previous step. This step will have a lot of flying ceramic pieces, so make sure your glasses are on properly.
# Some measurement of the toilet, and where the bolts will go is now in order. You should be able to place the soft steel w/nut under the toilet, and review that the threaded rod will fit before curing it in place with grout. Use a marker to assist in placement by making lines that intersect where the nut will go.
# Once you are confident the measurements are correct, grout the steel into the floor with the nut.
# Wait for the grout to cure (12-24 hours)
[[File:Soft steel and stainless with putty and grout.jpg|150px|thumb|right|End result, with grout holding steel in place. Note the putty is over the top of the nut to hold it without biting into it.]]
# Place the toilet.
# Put the threaded rod in the floor nuts.
# Put a washer and nut on the threaded rod.

===Notes===
Always place a nut on the threaded rod before cutting it, so you can get the threads properly grooved out after it's cut. Otherwise you will have to use a tap and die set to regroove where it's cut.

Stainless Steel bar could be used, but it's much harder to cut. You will need carbide or proper bits. There are drill bit charts such as the MSC catalog, which show what metals need what type of drill bit.

The putty adheres well to solid steel, but not as much to the stainless (I may have not scratched the stainless nut enough). So in this case, we will make sure to put the putty over the top of the nut to hold it in place.

One advantage of the putty is that it cures faster. Where as you could use grout for everything here, it will take a bit longer for the grout to properly cure. The putty will cure a bit faster than that (I can't speak for full strength, however). Curing speed of the putty will depend on amount of catalyst used, though I try to use less, rather than more.

[[File:Toilet floor bolts Putty not over top of nut.webm||100|]]
[[File:Putty SoftSteel Toilet floor bolts.webm||100|]]

===End Result===
The putty adhered well to the soft steel, but did not adhere as well to the stainless. This may have been due to me not preparing the stainless surface properly. Because it is so hard, you may need to take extra care to scratch off the outside layer. As a result, one of the pieces of steel had the nut fall out and the putty did not hold it in properly. Instead I went with the third and final approach. Third times the charm.

==Best Approach: Steel bar, Concrete screws, and Welding==
* Take a piece of mild steel bar (stainless would be better if you have carbide bits)
* Drill holes in the mild steel around the center, where you will later use concrete screws to hold the steel in the concrete subfloor. A drill press works best.
* Remove the toilet, put it aside.
* Break up the tiles underneath the toilet with a hammer / screwdriver, or angle grinder, or whatever chisel type tools you have available. You want to make rectangles just slightly bigger than the steel bar.
* Position the steel bar under the toilet in the holes prepared.
* Use concrete screws and get it solidly adhered to the floor (you will need an appropriate masonry bit to drill preholes, but any drill should work, you don't necessarily need a concrete / hammer drill. A normal drill is ok. Get extra masonry bits as they break easy (this kind of work should have coolant on the bit, but that's impractical here)). I use 3/16 drill bits and 1/4 concrete screws. The tapcon ones sell separate drill bits, and I've found that the socket tapcon screws are much better than the philips head type. You may need a socket set or a wrench.
* Put the bottom half of the toilet back (make sure it is making a tight seal with the floor or wall flange, if this is a rear exit toilet) and mark with a sharpie where the Toilet holes will go on the soft steel. There should besome space so that the nut or any of the screws won't cause the toilet to stick up from the floor.
* Weld a stainless nut just over the sharpie mark. (protect it from weld spatter)
* Put the toilet back. Make sure it is flush with the floor.
* Thread a cut piece of stainless rod in the toilet hole and into the nut.
* Put another nut w/washer on the rod.

That is the best approach. There is no need to use putty or epoxy. It's best to weld the nut after the toilet is placed, to make
placement easier. Otherwise you may have some headache trying to adjust where the hole will line up with the toilet. A quick internet
search says that toilet floor bolts are not standardized. A flux core welder can be rented from hardware stores if necessary.

I suppose epoxy or resin could be used to hold bolts, but I found that putting a nut below the toilet, and then using threaded rod to go through the toilet bolt hole to the nut below was more modular. For a bottom exit toilet, it may not matter, but for a rear entry toilet, the placement of 4 bolts (instead of just 2) is more difficult, so this is what works for me.

===Hindsight 2026===
I suspect, that the epoxy resin we use is not suitable for holding bolts. It is a type of flooring epoxy. However, anchoring cement or polyester resin in concrete should work better. Though my attempt with a stainless nut and resin here did not work, I did have success with stainless bolts and a concrete wall. Please see the other [[Application Notes]].

[[Category:Application Notes]]

Anchoring Cement Application

2026-02-27T10:28:35Z

Advance: /* See Also */

We have a product which is a type of Anchoring Cement. It is useful for bonding e.g. metal to concrete.

==Small Tank Installation==
It's simple to use. It's mixed in a two part, like an epoxy. Part A is the resin, and Part B is the catalyst. Here's an example where this Anchoring Cement was used.
<gallery widths=300px heights=200px>
File:Tank anchoring cement 1.jpg|Tank Placement.
File:Tank anchoring cement 2.jpg|Close up view.
</gallery>

While admittedly, the pictures don't show the install, the setup for this is as follows:
* Drill hole in concrete slightly larger than the threaded rod
* Mix the resin and catalyst
* Insert activated resin into the hole
* Insert threaded rod into hole
* Create scaffolding if necessary, so that the rod stays in position while it cures (vertical in this case).
* Clean up any excess with [[Acetone]]
* Once the resin has cured, test the bond, then attach any structure.

A similar procedure was used for two part epoxy and bathroom floor toilet bolts (unsuccessfully [[Epoxy_for_Bathroom_Bolt_Replacement | here]], but that was due to user error).

==See Also==
* There is a youtube video that discusses how traffic lights (and other pole structures) are often adhered to concrete using bolts. Of interest to us here, is that the placement of an item on the bolts can easily be adjusted to get a proper vertical rise. Link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wXWlj2Y_Lc0

[[Category:Application Notes]]

Aliphatic Urethane for Hardwood Floor Refinishing

2026-02-27T10:28:22Z

Advance: /* Hindsight 2023 */

This was a project undertook by a member of Advance Coatings, co. starting in 2019. The overall project was for renovation of an office, which encompassed the following projects

* Renovate walls by returning to original Brick
* Remove carpeting, and restore original Hardwood Floor
* Open Ceiling, by removing drop ceiling tiles
* Rewire Electrical with accessible conduit
* Misc painting, drywall, trim, and wiring of low voltage.

Of interest to us here is the floor refinishing. This refinishing was done with the help of a Urethane we resell. This document will go into detail the full hardwood floor refinishing process in as much detail as possible (after the fact). This info will be useful to those interested in Refinishing, as well as those interested in general Urethane advice with hardwood. Note that this page is meant as an adjunct to the [[Aliphatic Urethane]] page. It is recommended to be familiar with that page as well.

==Overview==
* sand down old floor to bare wood
* clean dust from floor with tack cloth / paper towel & water
* apply primer coat
* apply 2nd coat (hardwood required two coats, as the first coat mostly soaked in.)
* sand urethane with floor orbital sander (e.g. 80 or 100 grit)
* clean dust from floor once again
* apply 3rd coat

==Preparation==

[[File:SrOfficeBeforeRenovation.jpeg|300px|thumb|right|Room Before Renovation: The rugs are difficult to clean. The drop ceiling hides the all wood joists / subfloor above, and the walls are dark / dusty. This project started, as a desire to remove the rugs, but led into renovating the remaining aspects of the room.]]
The office was originally a hardwood floor, from a building built in the 1930-40's. At one point afterwards, a black tar glue was put on the floor, followed by plastic (vinyl, perhaps) tiles. In the 1960-70's, there was carpeting installed, over the original hardwood and tiles. The first step was removal of the carpeting, and tiles.

===Removing Tar Glue from Hardwood with Hot Water===
Removal of the carpeting was uneventful, outside of some dust. Removal of the tiles was also effortless, however the black tar below was seemingly glued to the hardwood. An associate in the construction business was consulted, and he recommended hot water and scraping to remove the black tar<ref>According to this person, hot water was the most effective at removing this tile glue. The other options advertised, solvents and what not, were not as effective.</ref>.
[[File:HardwoodFloorWithTarandGlue.jpg|300px|thumb|right|The floor with rug and tiles removed. Here we have most of the black tar removed, but not all. There remains a glue film over the wood, with patches of tar to scrape. The tools used in this job are shown in the picture. The broom helped to push water around and soak it better into the tar paper. A scraper on the end of a large pole was essential.]]
The trick to the black tar that we dealt with, was to use lots of water, and have the water be as hot as possible. It was also helpful to let the water sit on the tar for some time, in order to soak in. In the end, no concern was paid to overwatering the hardwood, and ample amounts of water, along with some hours of scraping, led to a floor 95\% clear of black tar. The black tar left a detergent or glue film to the wood, but this was not a problem. The sanding would soon remove this.
===Sanding the Old Floor===
With nearly all the tar removed, it was determined to sand the floor<ref>A note should be made on the importance of removing as much tar as possible. Can you sand the tar off? Yes, however the tar will stick to the sanding paper, and it will not easily come off. It is best to remove all tar paper before sanding to avoid this scenario. The white film of glue is not an issue for the sanding paper.</ref>. Two sanders were used on this floor, both rentals from the local Home Depot hardware store. We used the orbital sander, and the drum sander. The orbital was not effective. The drum sander was required. One step we missed here was that we didn't finish with a high enough grit on the drum sander. This was made up for later in the urethane stage, but if you are to sand a floor with a drum sander, we recommend starting low, and ending with the highest grit for drum sanders available (which is 100 for the rental we used). <ref>I would recommend starting with 20 or 30 if you have tough wood like ours was. You want to get underneath the finish without too much of a fight. Remember the adage: good tools do work, bad tools make work. With sanding, this is important. If you aren't making progress as you sand, you need more power.</ref> A result of the sanding ended up looking something like this:

[[File:OrbitalSanderOnHardwoodResults.jpg|300px|thumb|right|The orbital sander did not fully sand down the wood. While it works well for finish, it is ineffective for removing cellulose.]]

[[File:SandingHardwoodFloor.jpg|300px|thumb|right|The drum sander was able to do the work.]]

===Patching of the Hardwood Floor===
Before you apply the finish, the floor should be relatively free of imperfections. Apply wood filler where needed. Wood powder <ref>to be mixed with water and used as putty</ref> or premixed wood putty can be purchased at retail stores. We recommend traveling to a retailer that specializes in hardwood flooring, as they tend to have a better selection than the big box retail stores. In our situation, we used Woodwise Powdered wood filler, as in the picture here.

[[File:Powdered-3-Bags.jpg|150px|thumb|right|Patching the floor is required before finishing, whether it be hardwood, epoxy, or a tile floor.]]

===Testing of the Urethane===
If you want to test the urethane before committing to the floor, find a small patch in the corner or an inconspicuous spot to apply some finish to. Here we tested two brands. Keep the spots small, so they can be sanded out without difficulty later.

<gallery mode="traditional">
File:TestingUrethaneOnHardwoodFloor.jpg|Testing of various Urethanes in 1 Qt. cans. These spots turned out to be bigger than necessary. Keep the test area small to make removal easy.
File:WoodGlueAsFillerOnHardwood.jpeg|Wood glue did NOT work well as a substitute for wood filler or putty. The wood glue does not blend in correctly under finish.
File:WoodGlueUnderUrethaneHardwoodFloorDarkAppearance.jpg|Here you can see wood glue appear dark, under the finish.
</gallery>

===Cleaning Floor for Urethane===
Just before applying the finish, thoroughly clean dust off the floor to prepare. Vacuuming, followed by [[tack cloth]]s or damp rags can be used to get the dust off of the floor. Once you can put a tack cloth over the wood without getting much on it, you are ready for urethane.
[[File:CleaningHardwoodBeforeUrethaneFinish.jpg|300px|thumb|left|The floor should be cleaned well before applying finish. Any dust left on the floor will remain under the finish as well.]]

==Application==
You will require the following items:
* Proper Mask (should be rated for organic vapors. We use and recommend Moldex 7000 series reusable half mask. Details at [[Aliphatic_Urethane]]
* 3/16 [[Nap Roller]] Brush 9in. or larger
* Roller and Pole
* 3 or 5 gallon pail to mix resin and hardener
* Tool to mix the urethane with
* (optional) brush for edges OR 4 inch nap and roller
===Safety Considerations===
The aliphatic Urethane we sell is aromatic, and also offensive in large amounts. Apply after hours, and do not work in the area the urethane is in, after applying (Also, do not apply the urethane where others are working, especially if they don't have breathing protection). It is best to apply at the end of a day, or a Friday afternoon or evening, when the room can be left to cure overnight. The urethane is a strong coating, but it also has a strong smell, and will overpower you, if you try to work around it without proper protection. At the least, apply urethane at the end of the day, and wear the recommended mask. The urethane will not bother you with the mask, but as soon as you remove it, you will want to leave the area to let it cure.

===Putting Down the Urethane===
Take the pails of urethane and shake them, to mix any resin that might have settled. Mix the two parts of urethane into a 3 gallon pail. 2 Parts Resin (A) for 1 part Hardener (B). Stir to mix thoroughly in the pail.

[[File:Urethane NapRoller Tip.webm||100|right]]

For this room, the edges were brushed (Cheap brushes can be used, although it's important to 'pull' the loose hairs out of the brush first. There is no requirement for an expensive brush. A 4 inch roller will give better results than a brush, but the brush is more agile, and can reach corners, and around doors better.), although a 4 inch roller can also be used. The edges were done first, followed by starting at one side of the room, so as to give ourselves a way out ('''do not paint yourself into a corner''' so to speak, when urethaning. Plan where you will be applying the urethane, as you can't walk on wet finish).

When applying the urethane, you want to pour some of it into a puddle in front of yourself, then mostly pull the urethane towards you. The idea is to have a small pool of urethane riding in front of the nap roller, similar to how a dolphin rides the waves in front of a large steamship. When the pool of urethane has run out, you will want to apply more. This is called 'flooding' the floor. The nap roller will give the appropriate amount of urethane. Generally, do not press the nap roller down to apply. It rides on top of the floor, as you pull the pool of urethane towards yourself. There is a video demonstrating this process to the right.

This method with the pool will give the appropriate amount of thickness for the urethane. Note that a smooth floor will not be expected in early coats. In this floor, we required 3 coats, to get a glass finish.

===Bright Lights are Essential After the 1st Coat===

[[File:TwoCoatsOfUrethaneOnHardwood.jpg|thumb|After two coats. Note that the floor is still rough. We can get a more glass like finish with some sanding and another coat.]]
[[File:TwoCoatsOfUrethaneOnHardwood_IMGB.jpg|thumb|Another view after two coats.]]

I want to note the difference good lighting will make in the results of your work. When you do the first coat on hardwood, you can visually see the finish darken the wood, and you can use that as a guide. But, once the first coat is down, you will need strong lights above, and at angles to see where the finish is and isn't applied. Too much lighting is better than not enough. In our floor, we put down two coats, completed some renovation work - including adding overhead LED lights - then completed the third and final coat. The addition of overhead lighting was important towards seeing what was and was not 'flooded' fully with urethane.

===Last Coat Prep===
At this point, we removed the walls and ceilings. We rewired the electrical outlets opting for conduit, and replaced the windows, along with a fresh paint job on the wall. After this work was done, it was time to return to the floor, for a final coat.

The floor was rough. It had two coats, but there were a lot of specks here and there on top of the urethane finish. I used a floor orbital sander rented from a local hardware store with 80 grit, and after a couple hours had the large spots and specks on the surface of the urethane sanded off (the goal is to sand smooth the surface of the urethane not go down to the wood). Note that in order to get a smooth finish, '''sanding before the final coat is required'''.

<gallery mode="traditional">
File:UrethaneFloorAfterSanding.jpg|The floor with two coats of urethane, and then sanded with a handheld orbital. The white blemishes, are from sanding. A floor orbital was also used later, and does the same job in 1/4th the time.
File:DSCN2852.JPG|A spot was missed on the third coat, so some touch up with a brush was done the next day.
</gallery>
[[File:WoodFillerOnHardwoodFloor.jpg|thumb|Because we waited more than a month (it was several) between the second and third coats, we found the wood moving due to humidity changes. This allowed for some final wood filler in some cracks that appeared. It's possible the tar paper and tiles on before would've kept the wood from moving, in the past.]]
After this was done, we turned the new LED lights above the ceiling, cleaned the floor, and applied the final coat. After application of this coat. on a late afternoon, we left the building to let the urethane cure (as it smells strongly) The next week, we returned to a glassy and glossy urethane floor. Some small spots needed attention with a brush, and a small amount of urethane this next week, but otherwise the floor was ready for production.

==Ending==
Now we have a protected floor, and a new office, being able to keep the original 1940's hardwood. It has imperfections, but that's part of the allure of this industrial setting. We are happy with the results. It is functional, imperfect, and charming.

<gallery mode="traditional">
File:GlossyUrethaneOnHardwoodFloor.jpg| The Aliphatic Urethane is a glossy urethane. Three coats were required to get a smooth finish.
File:GlossyUrethaneOnHardwoodFloor_B.jpg| Floor after Third Coat and before final touches. Mostly complete. Not bad for an 80 year old floor.
File:GlossyUrethaneOnHardwoodFloor_C.jpg| Another view.
</gallery>

==Hindsight 2023==
While we have a much better room than before, we have more of a drafty room. It's apparent now the rugs were put in because the foundation is some feet below the hardwood (raised floor), and because of cracks around the edges of the room, it gets cold in the winter. Though this is easily fixed by opening the door from the rest of the office, where the heat blows in and heats it up (A relevant resource here is: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermal_transmittance). What is the solution: would I put rugs back in? No, I would not. I avoid rugs whenever possible. They collect dust. I also would not reinstall the wood paneling walls, or the drop ceiling. What should be done, is the hardwood floor should be completely pulled up, and proper floor insulation should be put in, then the hardwood should be put back down. This is not a trivial project. In any case, it wasn't a flawless victory with the renovation, but it was an improvement. Note that this is only an issue in the dead of winter, when the room has been closed up. The rest of the year, the room is comfortable.

[[Category:Application Notes]]

Hand Lay Up Guide

2026-02-27T10:28:00Z

Advance: /* The Resin Should be Fluid */

This is an older guide from the Advance Coatings product catalog, copied here for reference.

==Some Background on Polyester Resin: with Wax (non-air inhibited), vs. without Wax (air inhibited)==
[[Polyester Resin]] will not cure in the presence of air. To get around this problem, a very small amount of paraffin wax is mixed in solution with the resin. In the curing process, the wax rises to the surface in a very thin film and excludes the air from coming in contact with the resin, allowing it to cure very hard on the surface. Waxed resin will cure with a satin finish. This means it will not alow for a good bond for the next coat of resin.

Waxed resin is used for one coat glasswork, or for the last coat of resin in a laminating schedule, or for any layer in a laminate that has to be sanded. As long as the waxed surface has been sanded, there will be good bond for the next layer. Waxed resin can be used for multiple layer work as long as each layer is applied on top of a wet layer. Waxed resin is often referred to as Finishing Resin.

Resin without wax cures hard, but remains slightly tacky and gummy on the surface. This surface cannot be sanded but makes for very good adhesion for other coats of resin and glass. This is the type of resin used most in fiberglass construction. For a hard, final finish, a coat of resin or gelcoat with wax can be applied over the no wax layer. No wax resin is often referred to as Laminating Resin.

==Pitfalls of using Surfacing Agent (Wax)==

*Surfacing Agent must be clear. Not cloudy or lumpy. It can be warmed in HOT WATER, to clear it up. NO FLAME OR HOT PLATE as fire is possible
*Resin or Gelcoat must be over 70°F before surfacing agent can be added; this can also be warmed in hot water bath.
*Surfacing Agent may not work if laminate gelcoat is done in direct sun on hot days.
*Styrene fumes may accumulate in low areas, such as swimming pools, and can prevent Surfacing Agent (wax) from working.
*Over catalization may cause the gel to happen so quickly that Surfacing Agent will be unable to work.
==Glasses==
===Fiberglass Cloth===
This is lightweight, woven fiberglass and is available in many different weights, the most common being 6 ounce and 10 ounce (this is the weight of the cloth per square yard). Fiberglass cloth is used mainly as a waterproof covering over small boat hulls, canoes, cabin tops, engine boxes, etc., where great strength, impact, and abrasion resistance is not required. Cloth is also used as a final finishing layer over previous lay ups, such as mat. This is the E-Glass type of fiberglass cloth.

One important fact to remember when using fiberglass cloth is that it does not lend itself to hard angles very well. Whenever possible, break hard angles with a plane sandpaper, or radius inside angles with hull and deck putty or body putty. this, in many cases, is desirable for a good-looking job, anyway. One gallon of resin will saturate or "wet out" approximately 6 square yards of 10-ounce cloth. More resin will, of course, be required to finish the glass job or to fill up the weave of the cloth until it is smooth.

===Fiberglass Mat===
Mat is the most versatile and widely used form of fiberglass for the hand lay up procedure. Mat is made up of short, individual fiberglass that can be hand laid in place. We stock Mat in tow weights. ¾ oz. and 1 ½oz. per square foot. Mat is used in applications where strength and durability are required, such as, on work decks for commercial and sport fishing boats, cabin tops, all sorts of tanks, washboards, battery boxes, decks and balconies on houses, and auto body repair work.

Mat will conform nicely to hard angles and tuck in close to places where woven fiberglass will not. When layered or combined with woven roving, very strong, rugged glass laminates can be built. Because of the amount of resin it absorbs, Mat is not used in applications where maintaining it extremely lightweight is important. Mat leaves a fairly rough texture, which is an advantage in areas where a non-slip surface is desired. The choice of either ¾ oz. or 1 ½ oz. Mat depends upon the strength required or the complexity of the surface to be glassed. The ¾ oz. will lay down over or into angles and curves with less work than the thicker 1 ½ oz. Two layers of ¾ oz. could be laid to equal the strength and thickness of one layer 1 ½ oz. Mat will not de-laminate or peel off as easily as woven fiberglass. If it were to be removed, Mat would tend to break off in pieces where woven fiberglass would peel off in sheets.

Always use short [[Nap Roller]] to apply the resin to the Mat. Never apply the resin with a brush or squeegee. This would mop the fiberglass hairs around into piles and the finished product would have a very lumpy texture, making sanding and finishing a nightmare. Of course, it may be necessary to dab with a brush in hard angles or corners, but never stroke the surface back and forth. Always apply dry Mat to the surface you wish to cover and then apply the resin. In most cases the resin can actually be poured onto the surface from the mixing can and then spread around with the paint roller. One gallon of resin will wet out approximately 3 square yards of 1 ½ oz. Mat. When using Mat, a laminating roller should be used to massage out excess resin and the air that becomes entrapped in the laminate while it is still wet.

===Roving Woven===
We Stock 24 oz. and 18 oz. (per sq. yd.) Woven Roving. Roving is woven like cloth but is much heavier and thicker. It is used for reinforcement where much strength is required, as in the construction of boat hulls, tanks, swimming pools, etc... Also for smaller jobs such as glassing bulkheads and engine beds into glass hulls.

Roving should always have at least one layer of Mat applied first under it and between any further layers. Never apply Roving directly to Roving. Again, a pint roller is the best tool to use to apply the resin due to the large amounts of resin needed to wet out the Roving. Approximately 3 square yards of 24 oz. Roving can be wet out with a gallon of resin.

==Hand Lay-up Procedure==
===Step One: Prepare Surface===

Remove paint, or any other foreign material, from the surface to glassed using a disc sander. Do not use paint removers or a torch, as these just drive the oils int
o the wood, which will result in a poor bond. Rough up fiberglass surfaces to be glassed with a course disc. Slick, hard, non-porous surfaces do not promote good adhesion of the glass and resin. On bare, dry wood, roll on a catalyzed primer coat of no wax resin and let it cure. This is to seal the surface so the wood does not absorb all the wet resin from the fiberglass. Fill any screw heads, cracks, or gouges with a polyester based putty and let harden, then sand. Use no oil base fillers or putty.

===Step Two: Arrange Glass===

Precut and fit the fiberglass. Lay the glass out dry on the surface to be covered (there is no wet resin involved at this point). Roughly trim off excess material.

Final trimming will be done with a disc sander and a utility knife. If just one layer of glass is being applied, it's a good idea to overlap slightly where two or more layers are being applied. Just butting pieces together is okay, but make sure the butts are staggered. This will avoid lumps caused by overlapping. Iron out wrinkles by hand and dart corners for neat folds. On vertical surfaces, it may be necessary to hold glass in place with a few staples or tacks (stainless steel won't rust).

===Step Three: Mix Resin and Hardener, and Apply===

Mix the catalyst with the resin. A common mixture at 70 to 75°F is - two teaspoons per quart of resin. This gives about 15 to 20 minutes workable pot life. In cooler temperatures, up to four teaspoons per quart of resin is okay. Fiberglassing in temperatures under 55°F is not recommended unless some artificial heat is used or the sun is expected to shine on the project the same day.

With resin catalyzed, you are now ready to begin wetting out the fiberglass. In many cases, the resin can be poured directly from the mixing can onto the glass and spread around with the paint roller; otherwise you will have to work from the can or roller pan. The fiberglass will turn transparent when completely saturated. Put on only enough resin to wet out the glass. If the resin begins to gel in the pot, discard it immediately. Do not attempt to continue because in a matter of seconds it will be rock hard. Almost every glass expert loses resin in the pot occasionally. These losses should be budgeted for when the resin amounts needed for a job are being estimated. Now the first wet out is completed. Just let it cure hard before any sanding is done (2 to 5 hours at 70-75°F), unless no wax resin is being used for a continued lay up.

===Step Four: Sanding and Polishing===

You must decide before you start sanding how good you want the final job to look. Some jobs require little or no sanding at all; others require lots of grinding. Feather edge the overlaps with disc sander using a 36-grit disc. The object is for the job to look like it was covered by one continuous sheet of fiberglass. Sand off any rough spots where a bug or leaf may have gotten caught in the wet resin. When grinding Mat, only concentrate on the overlaps and highest bumps. By the time you have sanded the Mat completely smooth, you have ground most of it away, defeating the purpose.

Instead of excessive grinding, farring putty made from glass beads and wasted resin can be squeezed on the Mat with a wide drywall-taping knife. This fills up the lowest spots in the Mat and, when hard, sands easily. It can then be
covered with a finish layer of 6 or 10-ounce cloth, if desired.

'''Note''' - If farring putty is going to be used, it adheres best to no wax resin.

===Step Five: Apply Top Coat===

With all sanding completed, the final catalyzed layers of resin can be brushed or rolled on. When using cloth, only put on enough resin to fill up the weave of the fabric until it is smooth. When these coats have hardened and have been sanded, they are ready for painting.

The best primer is a two part epoxy white, such as Gloucester B370. Oil base gloss enamels go well over this. B370 Primer is also recommended on bare fiberglass below the water line when it is going to be painted with anti-fouling bottom, paint. Oil base primers and enamels will also work on sanded polyester finishes, but are not meant for continuous immersion in water. Pigments can also be added to the resin to obtain a permanent color requiring no paint. However, a smooth, high-gloss finish cannot be attained using pigmented resin. On those surfaces where a beautiful finish is not required (e.g. workboat decks, or fish hold, etc...), pigmented resin is suitable.

==Tips==
===MEKP Safety & Weather===
The hardener for polyester resin, [[Methyl Ethyl Ketone Peroxide]] (MEKP), is a corrosive and flammable liquid, and it should be handled with the greatest caution. Keep from children's reach. The MEKP commonly used is diluted, so it is not 100% pure, yet it is still hazardous nonetheless.

Wear protective goggles when mixing resin and hardener together. Shake the resin well before each day's use. The heavier components settle to the bottom of the container and must be recirculated. Drums can be up ended and stirred with a long stick. Do not glass in the direct sunlight on hot days. the surface to be glassed gets too hot and can upset the resin's hardening process. Also, the heat will cause the resin to gel too fast, perhaps before it can be totally worked into the fiberglass.

Rig up some kind of temporary shelter with a tarp to provide shade and cooler temperatures or wait until later in the afternoon when the sun is not baking the surface to be covered. In hot temperatures, lesser amounts of catalyst should be used. Do not let uncured resin get rained on or wet.

===Acetone is Essential===
No glasswork should be started without having some [[Acetone]] on hand for cleanup. Acetone is the best solvent for polyester and epoxy resins. Paint thinners such as mineral Spirits and Turpentine will not cut resin at all.

===The Resin Should be Fluid===
[[File:SEM 3210LVP3.jpg|200px|thumb|right|Top of image shows a surface cure, yet after 'breaking' the piece, the inner layers have no resin.]]
In order for the resin to penetrate fully into the glass, it can be heated to thin it, or a vacuum can be used to 'pull' the resin into the inner layers(or both, aka autoclave). When mixing resin with hardener, heat will be generated. It's possible to obtain drum or pail heaters. Use caution not to overheat (don't boil resin) or leave heater on for prolonged periods of time.

In this image, woven roving is used. Strand glass may be easier to soak in, given it does not have symmetrical layers impeding the resin.

{{Resins}}

[[Category:Application Notes]]

Hand Lay Up Guide

2026-02-27T10:27:52Z

Advance: /* The Resin Should be Fluid */

Cleanliness

2026-02-27T10:27:21Z

Advance:

When you start to work with resin, there will be a tendency to be slapdash in the work and cleanup after you are done with acetone. Instead, you should approach working with resin as a painter approaches working in a house. When a professional paints a ceiling in a house, for example, they are very careful not to get paint drops on the floor. Less paint drops on the floor means less paint on shoes, which means less mess. Even if they have a drop cloth. You should consider this approach for resin working.

Therefore, spend extra time and effort, cleaning as you go, as to keep your area neat.

* Wipe sides of resin pails/drums as you go with an acetone soaked cloth.
* Keep drops of resin on the ground to a minimum, and clean up when possible.

===Easily Accessible Acetone===
[[File:Acetone.webm||100|right]]
The best way I've found to use acetone, is to have an easy to access pail (say a 1 gallon metal paint can) and an ample supply of rags. Paint cans have a large opening, which makes getting tone on the rag accessible. This is more of a fire hazard, since the can cover may be loose while you are working, but this is better than using any container that has a screw top, and requires opening / closing each time you need some tone.

If you have the budget, you can look at the FM-approved containers for Flammable Liquid Dispensing such as https://www.mcmaster.com/products/flammable-liquids-dispensers/. These are good, but don't be rough with these, as the springs can break over time. All of this is a tradeoff between safety, usability, and price, and discretion should be advised given your particular work situation. Make sure containers are empty when work is completed. Do not fill the pail more than 20% full. And it is advised to work in areas that have fire sprinklers.

There is a bit of an art and grace to painting, or doing lay up without making a mess, and while it will take more time and attention to do so, it is worth the effort as cleanup at the end is easier.

[[Category:Application Notes]]

Cleanliness

2026-02-27T10:27:07Z

Advance:

When you start to work with resin, there will be a tendency to be slapdash in the work and cleanup after you are done with acetone. Instead, you should approach working with resin as a painter approaches working in a house. When a professional paints a ceiling in a house, for example, they are very careful not to get paint drops on the floor. Less paint drops on the floor means less paint on shoes, which means less mess. Even if they have a drop cloth. You should consider this approach for resin working.

Therefore, spend extra time and effort, cleaning as you go, as to keep your area neater.

* Wipe sides of resin pails/drums as you go with an acetone soaked cloth.
* Keep drops of resin on the ground to a minimum, and clean up when possible.

===Easily Accessible Acetone===
[[File:Acetone.webm||100|right]]
The best way I've found to use acetone, is to have an easy to access pail (say a 1 gallon metal paint can) and an ample supply of rags. Paint cans have a large opening, which makes getting tone on the rag accessible. This is more of a fire hazard, since the can cover may be loose while you are working, but this is better than using any container that has a screw top, and requires opening / closing each time you need some tone.

If you have the budget, you can look at the FM-approved containers for Flammable Liquid Dispensing such as https://www.mcmaster.com/products/flammable-liquids-dispensers/. These are good, but don't be rough with these, as the springs can break over time. All of this is a tradeoff between safety, usability, and price, and discretion should be advised given your particular work situation. Make sure containers are empty when work is completed. Do not fill the pail more than 20% full. And it is advised to work in areas that have fire sprinklers.

There is a bit of an art and grace to painting, or doing lay up without making a mess, and while it will take more time and attention to do so, it is worth the effort as cleanup at the end is easier.

[[Category:Application Notes]]

Cleanliness

2026-02-27T10:26:44Z

Advance:

When you start to work with resin, there will be a tendency to be slapdash in the work and cleanup after you are done with acetone. Instead, you should approach working with resin as a painter approaches working in a house. When a professional paints a ceiling in an old house, for example, they are very careful not to get paint drops on the floor. Less paint drops on the floor means less paint on shoes, which means less mess. Even if they have a drop cloth. You should consider this approach for resin working.

Therefore, spend extra time and effort, cleaning as you go, as to keep your area neater.

* Wipe sides of resin pails/drums as you go with an acetone soaked cloth.
* Keep drops of resin on the ground to a minimum, and clean up when possible.

===Easily Accessible Acetone===
[[File:Acetone.webm||100|right]]
The best way I've found to use acetone, is to have an easy to access pail (say a 1 gallon metal paint can) and an ample supply of rags. Paint cans have a large opening, which makes getting tone on the rag accessible. This is more of a fire hazard, since the can cover may be loose while you are working, but this is better than using any container that has a screw top, and requires opening / closing each time you need some tone.

If you have the budget, you can look at the FM-approved containers for Flammable Liquid Dispensing such as https://www.mcmaster.com/products/flammable-liquids-dispensers/. These are good, but don't be rough with these, as the springs can break over time. All of this is a tradeoff between safety, usability, and price, and discretion should be advised given your particular work situation. Make sure containers are empty when work is completed. Do not fill the pail more than 20% full. And it is advised to work in areas that have fire sprinklers.

There is a bit of an art and grace to painting, or doing lay up without making a mess, and while it will take more time and attention to do so, it is worth the effort as cleanup at the end is easier.

[[Category:Application Notes]]

Category:Application Notes

2026-02-27T10:26:24Z

Advance: Created blank page

Gelcoat Anchoring

2026-02-27T10:26:16Z

Advance: /* Todo */

This is a similar usage case to [[Anchoring_Cement_Application]], however, in this case, instead of using a dedicated anchoring product for this, we are simply using excess gelcoat. Polyester resin is a strong enough adhesive for small jobs, and in this scenario, the goal is to get pegboard on a concrete wall. Since this is a low weight, non critical application (i.e. the weight of pegboard with tools is minimal, and this is indoors), we can get away with using any leftover gelcoat or polyester resin.

This is a good use of leftover resin.

==Items Needed==
* Extra Resin or Gelcoat
* Catalyst
* Mixing Cup
* Popsicle Stick
* Syringe
* Rags
* Acetone

For this type of application, you will want to use a syringe that has an opening large enough to work with the relatively viscous gelcoat or resin. Using [[Catalyst_Measuring_Syringes]] might not work, as catalyst is thinner. You may try cutting a thinner syringe near the end with a pair of pliers. For a small job, it should suffice.

For this tutorial, we will assume you have already drilled the necessary holes in the wall. Also, we will assume you have the necessary threaded rod or bolts prepared (in this case, I cut 1/4" bolts with a bandsaw to make them usable).

==Steps==

# When working with a syringe and resin, you will find that it tends to spill down the wall. You will make a bit of a mess. Therefore, start by putting some rags down on the floor.
# Note that even with rags, this process will be messy, and likely the wall will get some resin on it. Acetone can be used to cleanup afterwards, but it's not perfect. You wouldn't want to do this on an important wall, without proper prep. That may involve covering off any areas you don't want to get resin on. Or, you might paint over the resin after. For this example, I am not concerned as much with the gelcoat as it is going to be covered up.
# If you are putting bolts on the wall, you probably want to cover them with tape to avoid getting resin in the threads (or you can use a wire wheel afterwards).
# Mix the resin with catalyst in the mixing cup.
# Use the syringe to draw in some of the premixed resin.
# Carefully inject the resin into the void in the wall.
# Place the bolt into the wall and resin.
# Position the bolt properly, if needed.
# Cleanup

<gallery>
File:IMG 20260112 204307759edit .jpg | Use rags on the floor.
File:IMG 20260112 204228568edit .jpg | The resin may smear on the wall. Use acetone to clean up or prep by covering the wall.
File:IMG 20260112 204422858edit .jpg | Improper Application of resin will have an air gap.
File:IMG 20260112 204420375edit .jpg | Proper Application of resin from a syringe will bond all areas.
</gallery>

==Conclusion==
You may notice there is already pegboard on the right side, but that is a different size pegboard than what will be installed.

Overall, this was a good use of old resin, but without thickener, the resin runs out the syringe and down the wall. It's still a fun project to take up, and it shows that syringes can be used for resin as well as for catalyst. Here, you are 'injecting' resin into the wall, and then placing a bolt in. It makes me wonder if there is any advantage to having resin filled concrete blocks (it looks like online, that concrete is sometimes used to fill blocks, though you could use other materials such as resin (if non flammable)).

This project made more of a mess than I expected. I think if you added a thickener, you might have an easier time dealing with the resin. Though it may not be absolutely necessary. Also, you will need dedicated resin syringes (seperate from the catalyst ones) as resin is fairly thick as I mentioned before.

==Todo==
Some weight bearing tests should be done, out of curiousity.

There are videos along with these photos, that I will upload at a later date.

[[Category:Application Notes]]

Epoxy for Bathroom Bolt Replacement

2026-02-27T10:25:38Z

Advance: /* Hindsight */

This is a story about trying to replace floor bolts on a rear exit toilet. The first attempt was to use epoxy to put new bolts into a preexisting tiled bathroom floor. The epoxy approach ended up not turning out properly (due to user error), and instead Polyester Resin based Hull and Deck Putty attached to a piece of mild steel and a stainless nut was used instead as an adhesive. Then this also failed, and instead of using any kind of resin here (which was too difficult to adhere to the stainless), simple welding and concrete screws were used. While all of these approaches could potentially work if done properly, the easiest thing was to weld and use concrete screws.

The epoxy approach was not taken seriously enough, the bolts were not put deep enough into the floor, and the measurements were incorrect, the polyester approach was flawed due to differences in bonding between mild steel (which adhered well to the putty) and improperly prepared stainless (which did not stick to the putty). The final approach turned out to be the right answer here. Note that we actually sell a resin designed to work with concrete anchors, but I didn't use that here. That will have to wait for another day. Concrete screws are good enough for an indoor residential toilet.

==Overview==

The toilet has four bolts. Two on the back, and two on the bottom. It is a toilet which exits out the back (a rear outlet toilet). The two bottom bolts have rusted out over time. The two back bolts are still intact. The goal will be to somehow replace the floor bolts. This project did not turn out correctly the first time, so there will be two approaches documented here.

'''Concerns:'''
* The old bolts will be rusted, only until they go into the floor, at which point they will be solid bolts.
* Replacement of the tile/subfloor is not practical. We just want to change out the bolts.
* The new bolts must be set in epoxy/glue/adhesive strong enough to keep the toilet from moving.

==Approach One: Epoxy bolts into the floor==

===Items needed===
* Two Part Epoxy (Part A is base resin. Part B is hardener)
* Acetone (cleanup)
* Brass/Stainless nuts and bolts of appropriate length
* Washers
* Basic tools for removal of toilet (various wrenches, screwdriver, socket set).

===Removal of toilet===
The removal of the toilet here is relatively easy. It required a flat head screwdriver (for tank bolts) and a ratchet set to hold the bolt stead. There are also the drain bolts which require pliers or a wrench. The trickier part is putting it back together, without a leak. Certain parts of the toilet are prone to leaking, so a wax ring (I've been told these are made of beeswax) is used, and some wax put on
any seals that may leak (the bolts that hold the top tank as well as the center top tank outlet are coated with some wax).

===Preparation===
Items required were purchased from the hardware store. This job required at least:
* Brass bolts
* Brass nuts
* stainless or brass washers
* Two Part Epoxy 
And you should have some basic tools, including a hand drill, and drill bits. The plan will be to drill a hole into the ceramic tile, fill the hole with epoxy, let cure, then do at least one more layer of epoxy after the first.

Buy different lengths of bolts. I bought 1.5" and 2". I ended up using the 2". What length to use will depend upon your floor. Also measure the toilet tank bolt hole diameter, and do not buy a bolt bigger than what will fit through the toilet!
[[File:DrillbitsUsedforTiledFloor.JPG|300px|thumb|right|These bits were used to drill into the floor. Ideally, you would have a press not a hand drill, but a hand drill will do the job.]]

===Drilling into Tile===
Drilling into tile seemed easy. The old bolts were still in the tile. I did not remove those, but drilled adjacent to them. Ideally I would've drilled through the old bolts (which were only rusted on top) but this proved too difficult without a drill press to stabilize. I ended up angling the bolts slightly, and tested a fit beforehand to confirm that it would work, by placing the toilet over the bolts which were blue taped into position.

===Epoxy Layering===
After placing the bolts, and mixing / pouring the two part epoxy, I used blue tape to hold the bolts in proper position. After at least 12 hours (I waited overnight) the bolts were checked, confirmed to be firm and then I gambled. I poured the next layer of mixed epoxy onto the base of the bolts, and then placed the toilet back on, while the bolts were still curing. I do not recommend this, but due to time constraints, I wanted to get the toilet back into working order.
[[File:Epoxy_bolt_acetone_to_clean.JPG|300px|thumb|right|Acetone is necessary for cleanup. Here a $2 bottle from the grocery store will do in a pinch, as I didn't have any of the more pure stuff we sell. Caution: Flammable!]]
By carefully placing the toilet, as to not break the first epoxy bond, I was then ready to re-assemble the toilet, and let the 2nd layer of epoxy fully cure. I waited again, overnight.

It should be noted that when placing the first layer of epoxy in the tile, and its subfloor (likely hardy board), that much of the first layer soaked into the subfloor. This was another reason for the 2nd coat. I wanted to ensure the bolts did not come loose. They were cured into the tile, but the left bolt was less so than the right. A 2nd layer, ensured the epoxy was set.

===How Thick Can the Epoxy Be Layered?===
I know from my experiments with silicone molds - not too thick. The epoxy we sell is not for making 3"x3"x3" cubes, it's for using as a protective layer for floors or similar such usage. Maybe 8mm thick is a good place to stay under.

===Cleanup===
Let me emphasize the necessity of acetone for cleanup.

Upon pouring the first layer, there was some overspill from the epoxy, as it settled into the tile/subfloor. This epoxy if not cured, would've put some millimeters on the tile, and possibly upset the toilet from sitting flat. Acetone is the best way to clean 'uncured' epoxy in this situation. It will clean up neatly, and can be purchased from Advance Coatings (better quality) or from Grocery Stores (low quality). See [[Acetone]], for more details.

===Reassembly of toilet===
<pre>
attachment of washer + nut
tighten 'handtight', then finish with a few turns (not too many) with wrench.
cleanup
job complete
</pre>
[[File:DSCN0096.JPG|300px|thumb|right|Bolts Replaced]]

===Approach One Conclusion: 12/2020===
The epoxy bolts weren't placed appropriately, (bad measurement) they were angled slightly, and also due to not drilling deep enough the bolts were not held strongly enough into the floor. So this approach did not pan out in the end.

====What would a plumber do?====
I asked the opinion of a plumber on how to replace these, and he said they would simply drill down into the concrete with longer bolts, from the top of the toilet after installing. I then asked him, what would they do when the toilet needed to be removed, and he said drill even deeper bolts after replacing it. Of course, that can't go on forever, so at some point, you end up through the floor. (This is a limitation of my residence, and not of necessarily all homes). The plumbers are busy men, and they don't have time to make a project out of the bolt replacement, so sometimes their solutions are rushed more than someone with enough time to experiment can do. So let's return back to this problem in 2023.

==Approach Two: 2023 Polyester Putty and Mild Steel ==
The toilet has been mostly ok for the past couple years, but it is not as solid as it should be without floor bolts. I delayed this project for a long time, because I wasn't sure just how I could properly do this, without a repeat of the first approach. I got into welding, and starting buying mild steel (which I will refer to as soft steel for the remainder of this document) at the local metal supermarket, when I realized a more robust solution.

===Plan===
Instead of trying to set bolts in the floor, I would somehow set a nut below the toilet, and then use threaded rod to thread into the nut from above (with the toilet already placed), finally placing a nut on top of the rod to hold the toilet in place. This way I don't have to worry about placement of the toilet bolt without the toilet in place. I can place the nut, adjust it so there is a good fit to the toilet bolt holes, and then set everything in place. (This is a limitation of rear outlet toilets, as you have to set the floor bolts AND the back bolts properly. Where as a normal toilet, you only have to set two bolts. With four bolts there is less margin for error).

To go into details on this approach: I would put a nut on a piece of soft steel with adhesive (in this case I used Polyester Resin putty, although epoxy probably could've been used). and then the soft steel would be held in the tile with some premixed grout (I considered using Putty, but it doesn't bond to ceramic, so grout was a better choice). Any reasonably multi purpose bathroom concrete / tile mix would probably work. Sanded (not non-sanded) grout, should be used.

With a nut securely held below the toilet, you can cut a piece of threaded rod (stainless) and then fit it after the toilet has been
placed, putting another nut on top of it, to hold it in place.

Using threaded rod, instead of bolts was a better solution, as the threaded rod can be cut to size.

===Items Needed===
* Proper eye, ear, and face protection (ideally a welding helmet)
* Angle grinder or bandsaw
* Stainless threaded rod
* Stainless nut
* Adhesive (Polyester Hull and Deck Putty was used here)
* Sanded grout
* Soft (mild) steel bar cut to size
* File or someway to scratch the steel and nut.

===Steps===

# Drill out a part of the soft steel so there is a place for the nut to sit. This is optional, and depends how much space you have below the toilet.
# Mix a small paper cup of putty with some MEKP catalyst.
# Use putty to hold the nut on the soft steel. Make sure not to get any putty on the threads of the nut, or where the threaded rod has to go. However the putty should be over the top of the nut, not just on the sides. If you only put putty on the sides, and it doesn't adhere to the hard stainless, the nut may be able to be pulled upwards.
[[File:Soft steel and stainelss with putty.jpg|150px|thumb|right|Putty adheres to soft steel, but not as well to stainless with just a basic file.]]
# Wait until the putty cures. It should be placed slightly over the top of the nut, but not over the threads. See the pictures.
# Cut threaded rod to an appropriate size for a floor bolt. How long will depend on how low the soft steel and nut will be below the toilet. Because the threaded rod is threaded on, 'after', the toilet is in place, it can be longer than a standard floor bolt.
# Mark off a square where you will remove the tile. It should be sized slightly larger than the piece of soft steel.
# Use an angle grinder, and ideally an abrasive diamond blade (although in a pinch, a standard metal cut off wheel will work. Wear proper protection.) and cut the lines you marked off previously
# Use a hammer and or some type of chisel (A screw driver will work in a pinch) to remove the tile within the square you cut in the previous step. This step will have a lot of flying ceramic pieces, so make sure your glasses are on properly.
# Some measurement of the toilet, and where the bolts will go is now in order. You should be able to place the soft steel w/nut under the toilet, and review that the threaded rod will fit before curing it in place with grout. Use a marker to assist in placement by making lines that intersect where the nut will go.
# Once you are confident the measurements are correct, grout the steel into the floor with the nut.
# Wait for the grout to cure (12-24 hours)
[[File:Soft steel and stainless with putty and grout.jpg|150px|thumb|right|End result, with grout holding steel in place. Note the putty is over the top of the nut to hold it without biting into it.]]
# Place the toilet.
# Put the threaded rod in the floor nuts.
# Put a washer and nut on the threaded rod.

===Notes===
Always place a nut on the threaded rod before cutting it, so you can get the threads properly grooved out after it's cut. Otherwise you will have to use a tap and die set to regroove where it's cut.

Stainless Steel bar could be used, but it's much harder to cut. You will need carbide or proper bits. There are drill bit charts such as the MSC catalog, which show what metals need what type of drill bit.

The putty adheres well to solid steel, but not as much to the stainless (I may have not scratched the stainless nut enough). So in this case, we will make sure to put the putty over the top of the nut to hold it in place.

One advantage of the putty is that it cures faster. Where as you could use grout for everything here, it will take a bit longer for the grout to properly cure. The putty will cure a bit faster than that (I can't speak for full strength, however). Curing speed of the putty will depend on amount of catalyst used, though I try to use less, rather than more.

[[File:Toilet floor bolts Putty not over top of nut.webm||100|]]
[[File:Putty SoftSteel Toilet floor bolts.webm||100|]]

===End Result===
The putty adhered well to the soft steel, but did not adhere as well to the stainless. This may have been due to me not preparing the stainless surface properly. Because it is so hard, you may need to take extra care to scratch off the outside layer. As a result, one of the pieces of steel had the nut fall out and the putty did not hold it in properly. Instead I went with the third and final approach. Third times the charm.

==Best Approach: Steel bar, Concrete screws, and Welding==
* Take a piece of mild steel bar (stainless would be better if you have carbide bits)
* Drill holes in the mild steel around the center, where you will later use concrete screws to hold the steel in the concrete subfloor. A drill press works best.
* Remove the toilet, put it aside.
* Break up the tiles underneath the toilet with a hammer / screwdriver, or angle grinder, or whatever chisel type tools you have available. You want to make rectangles just slightly bigger than the steel bar.
* Position the steel bar under the toilet in the holes prepared.
* Use concrete screws and get it solidly adhered to the floor (you will need an appropriate masonry bit to drill preholes, but any drill should work, you don't necessarily need a concrete / hammer drill. A normal drill is ok. Get extra masonry bits as they break easy (this kind of work should have coolant on the bit, but that's impractical here)). I use 3/16 drill bits and 1/4 concrete screws. The tapcon ones sell separate drill bits, and I've found that the socket tapcon screws are much better than the philips head type. You may need a socket set or a wrench.
* Put the bottom half of the toilet back (make sure it is making a tight seal with the floor or wall flange, if this is a rear exit toilet) and mark with a sharpie where the Toilet holes will go on the soft steel. There should besome space so that the nut or any of the screws won't cause the toilet to stick up from the floor.
* Weld a stainless nut just over the sharpie mark. (protect it from weld spatter)
* Put the toilet back. Make sure it is flush with the floor.
* Thread a cut piece of stainless rod in the toilet hole and into the nut.
* Put another nut w/washer on the rod.

That is the best approach. There is no need to use putty or epoxy. It's best to weld the nut after the toilet is placed, to make
placement easier. Otherwise you may have some headache trying to adjust where the hole will line up with the toilet. A quick internet
search says that toilet floor bolts are not standardized. A flux core welder can be rented from hardware stores if necessary.

I suppose epoxy or resin could be used to hold bolts, but I found that putting a nut below the toilet, and then using threaded rod to go through the toilet bolt hole to the nut below was more modular. For a bottom exit toilet, it may not matter, but for a rear entry toilet, the placement of 4 bolts (instead of just 2) is more difficult, so this is what works for me.

===Hindsight===
I suspect, that the epoxy resin we use is not suitable for holding bolts. It is a type of flooring epoxy. However, anchoring cement or polyester resin in concrete should work better. Though my attempt with a stainless nut and resin here did not work, I did have success with stainless bolts and a concrete wall. Please see the other [[Application Notes]].

[[Category:Application Notes]]

Cleanliness

2026-02-27T10:25:18Z

Advance:

When you start to work with resin, there will be a tendency to be slapdash in the work and cleanup after you are done with acetone. Instead, you should approach working with resin as a painter approaches working in a house. When a professional paints a ceiling in an old house, for example, they are very careful not to get paint drops on the floor. Less paint drops on the floor means less paint on shoes, which means less mess. Even if they have a drop cloth. You should consider this approach for resin working.

Therefore, spend extra time and effort, cleaning as you go, as to keep your area neater.

* Wipe sides of resin pails/drums as you go with an acetone soaked cloth.
* Keep drops of resin on the ground to a minimum, and clean up when possible.

===Easily Accessible Acetone===
[[File:Acetone.webm||100|right]]
The best way I've found to use acetone, is to have an easy to access pail (say a 1 gallon metal paint can) and an ample supply of rags. Paint cans have a large opening, which makes getting tone on the rag accessible. This is more of a fire hazard, since the can cover may be loose while you are working, but this is better than using any container that has a screw top, and requires opening / closing each time you need some tone.

If you have the budget, you can look at the FM-approved containers for Flammable Liquid Dispensing such as https://www.mcmaster.com/products/flammable-liquids-dispensers/. These are good, but don't be rough with these, as the springs can break over time. All of this is a tradeoff between safety, usability, and price, and discretion should be advised given your particular work situation. Make sure containers are empty when work is completed. Do not fill the pail more than 20% full. And it is advised to work in areas that have fire sprinklers.

There is a bit of an art and grace to painting, or doing lay up without making a mess, and while it will take more time and attention to do so, it is worth the effort as cleanup at the end is easier.

[[Category:Application notes]]

Gelcoat Anchoring

2026-02-27T10:25:08Z

Advance: /* Todo */

Epoxy for Bathroom Bolt Replacement

2026-02-27T10:24:42Z

Advance: /* Hindsight */

This is a story about trying to replace floor bolts on a rear exit toilet. The first attempt was to use epoxy to put new bolts into a preexisting tiled bathroom floor. The epoxy approach ended up not turning out properly (due to user error), and instead Polyester Resin based Hull and Deck Putty attached to a piece of mild steel and a stainless nut was used instead as an adhesive. Then this also failed, and instead of using any kind of resin here (which was too difficult to adhere to the stainless), simple welding and concrete screws were used. While all of these approaches could potentially work if done properly, the easiest thing was to weld and use concrete screws.

The epoxy approach was not taken seriously enough, the bolts were not put deep enough into the floor, and the measurements were incorrect, the polyester approach was flawed due to differences in bonding between mild steel (which adhered well to the putty) and improperly prepared stainless (which did not stick to the putty). The final approach turned out to be the right answer here. Note that we actually sell a resin designed to work with concrete anchors, but I didn't use that here. That will have to wait for another day. Concrete screws are good enough for an indoor residential toilet.

==Overview==

The toilet has four bolts. Two on the back, and two on the bottom. It is a toilet which exits out the back (a rear outlet toilet). The two bottom bolts have rusted out over time. The two back bolts are still intact. The goal will be to somehow replace the floor bolts. This project did not turn out correctly the first time, so there will be two approaches documented here.

'''Concerns:'''
* The old bolts will be rusted, only until they go into the floor, at which point they will be solid bolts.
* Replacement of the tile/subfloor is not practical. We just want to change out the bolts.
* The new bolts must be set in epoxy/glue/adhesive strong enough to keep the toilet from moving.

==Approach One: Epoxy bolts into the floor==

===Items needed===
* Two Part Epoxy (Part A is base resin. Part B is hardener)
* Acetone (cleanup)
* Brass/Stainless nuts and bolts of appropriate length
* Washers
* Basic tools for removal of toilet (various wrenches, screwdriver, socket set).

===Removal of toilet===
The removal of the toilet here is relatively easy. It required a flat head screwdriver (for tank bolts) and a ratchet set to hold the bolt stead. There are also the drain bolts which require pliers or a wrench. The trickier part is putting it back together, without a leak. Certain parts of the toilet are prone to leaking, so a wax ring (I've been told these are made of beeswax) is used, and some wax put on
any seals that may leak (the bolts that hold the top tank as well as the center top tank outlet are coated with some wax).

===Preparation===
Items required were purchased from the hardware store. This job required at least:
* Brass bolts
* Brass nuts
* stainless or brass washers
* Two Part Epoxy 
And you should have some basic tools, including a hand drill, and drill bits. The plan will be to drill a hole into the ceramic tile, fill the hole with epoxy, let cure, then do at least one more layer of epoxy after the first.

Buy different lengths of bolts. I bought 1.5" and 2". I ended up using the 2". What length to use will depend upon your floor. Also measure the toilet tank bolt hole diameter, and do not buy a bolt bigger than what will fit through the toilet!
[[File:DrillbitsUsedforTiledFloor.JPG|300px|thumb|right|These bits were used to drill into the floor. Ideally, you would have a press not a hand drill, but a hand drill will do the job.]]

===Drilling into Tile===
Drilling into tile seemed easy. The old bolts were still in the tile. I did not remove those, but drilled adjacent to them. Ideally I would've drilled through the old bolts (which were only rusted on top) but this proved too difficult without a drill press to stabilize. I ended up angling the bolts slightly, and tested a fit beforehand to confirm that it would work, by placing the toilet over the bolts which were blue taped into position.

===Epoxy Layering===
After placing the bolts, and mixing / pouring the two part epoxy, I used blue tape to hold the bolts in proper position. After at least 12 hours (I waited overnight) the bolts were checked, confirmed to be firm and then I gambled. I poured the next layer of mixed epoxy onto the base of the bolts, and then placed the toilet back on, while the bolts were still curing. I do not recommend this, but due to time constraints, I wanted to get the toilet back into working order.
[[File:Epoxy_bolt_acetone_to_clean.JPG|300px|thumb|right|Acetone is necessary for cleanup. Here a $2 bottle from the grocery store will do in a pinch, as I didn't have any of the more pure stuff we sell. Caution: Flammable!]]
By carefully placing the toilet, as to not break the first epoxy bond, I was then ready to re-assemble the toilet, and let the 2nd layer of epoxy fully cure. I waited again, overnight.

It should be noted that when placing the first layer of epoxy in the tile, and its subfloor (likely hardy board), that much of the first layer soaked into the subfloor. This was another reason for the 2nd coat. I wanted to ensure the bolts did not come loose. They were cured into the tile, but the left bolt was less so than the right. A 2nd layer, ensured the epoxy was set.

===How Thick Can the Epoxy Be Layered?===
I know from my experiments with silicone molds - not too thick. The epoxy we sell is not for making 3"x3"x3" cubes, it's for using as a protective layer for floors or similar such usage. Maybe 8mm thick is a good place to stay under.

===Cleanup===
Let me emphasize the necessity of acetone for cleanup.

Upon pouring the first layer, there was some overspill from the epoxy, as it settled into the tile/subfloor. This epoxy if not cured, would've put some millimeters on the tile, and possibly upset the toilet from sitting flat. Acetone is the best way to clean 'uncured' epoxy in this situation. It will clean up neatly, and can be purchased from Advance Coatings (better quality) or from Grocery Stores (low quality). See [[Acetone]], for more details.

===Reassembly of toilet===
<pre>
attachment of washer + nut
tighten 'handtight', then finish with a few turns (not too many) with wrench.
cleanup
job complete
</pre>
[[File:DSCN0096.JPG|300px|thumb|right|Bolts Replaced]]

===Approach One Conclusion: 12/2020===
The epoxy bolts weren't placed appropriately, (bad measurement) they were angled slightly, and also due to not drilling deep enough the bolts were not held strongly enough into the floor. So this approach did not pan out in the end.

====What would a plumber do?====
I asked the opinion of a plumber on how to replace these, and he said they would simply drill down into the concrete with longer bolts, from the top of the toilet after installing. I then asked him, what would they do when the toilet needed to be removed, and he said drill even deeper bolts after replacing it. Of course, that can't go on forever, so at some point, you end up through the floor. (This is a limitation of my residence, and not of necessarily all homes). The plumbers are busy men, and they don't have time to make a project out of the bolt replacement, so sometimes their solutions are rushed more than someone with enough time to experiment can do. So let's return back to this problem in 2023.

==Approach Two: 2023 Polyester Putty and Mild Steel ==
The toilet has been mostly ok for the past couple years, but it is not as solid as it should be without floor bolts. I delayed this project for a long time, because I wasn't sure just how I could properly do this, without a repeat of the first approach. I got into welding, and starting buying mild steel (which I will refer to as soft steel for the remainder of this document) at the local metal supermarket, when I realized a more robust solution.

===Plan===
Instead of trying to set bolts in the floor, I would somehow set a nut below the toilet, and then use threaded rod to thread into the nut from above (with the toilet already placed), finally placing a nut on top of the rod to hold the toilet in place. This way I don't have to worry about placement of the toilet bolt without the toilet in place. I can place the nut, adjust it so there is a good fit to the toilet bolt holes, and then set everything in place. (This is a limitation of rear outlet toilets, as you have to set the floor bolts AND the back bolts properly. Where as a normal toilet, you only have to set two bolts. With four bolts there is less margin for error).

To go into details on this approach: I would put a nut on a piece of soft steel with adhesive (in this case I used Polyester Resin putty, although epoxy probably could've been used). and then the soft steel would be held in the tile with some premixed grout (I considered using Putty, but it doesn't bond to ceramic, so grout was a better choice). Any reasonably multi purpose bathroom concrete / tile mix would probably work. Sanded (not non-sanded) grout, should be used.

With a nut securely held below the toilet, you can cut a piece of threaded rod (stainless) and then fit it after the toilet has been
placed, putting another nut on top of it, to hold it in place.

Using threaded rod, instead of bolts was a better solution, as the threaded rod can be cut to size.

===Items Needed===
* Proper eye, ear, and face protection (ideally a welding helmet)
* Angle grinder or bandsaw
* Stainless threaded rod
* Stainless nut
* Adhesive (Polyester Hull and Deck Putty was used here)
* Sanded grout
* Soft (mild) steel bar cut to size
* File or someway to scratch the steel and nut.

===Steps===

# Drill out a part of the soft steel so there is a place for the nut to sit. This is optional, and depends how much space you have below the toilet.
# Mix a small paper cup of putty with some MEKP catalyst.
# Use putty to hold the nut on the soft steel. Make sure not to get any putty on the threads of the nut, or where the threaded rod has to go. However the putty should be over the top of the nut, not just on the sides. If you only put putty on the sides, and it doesn't adhere to the hard stainless, the nut may be able to be pulled upwards.
[[File:Soft steel and stainelss with putty.jpg|150px|thumb|right|Putty adheres to soft steel, but not as well to stainless with just a basic file.]]
# Wait until the putty cures. It should be placed slightly over the top of the nut, but not over the threads. See the pictures.
# Cut threaded rod to an appropriate size for a floor bolt. How long will depend on how low the soft steel and nut will be below the toilet. Because the threaded rod is threaded on, 'after', the toilet is in place, it can be longer than a standard floor bolt.
# Mark off a square where you will remove the tile. It should be sized slightly larger than the piece of soft steel.
# Use an angle grinder, and ideally an abrasive diamond blade (although in a pinch, a standard metal cut off wheel will work. Wear proper protection.) and cut the lines you marked off previously
# Use a hammer and or some type of chisel (A screw driver will work in a pinch) to remove the tile within the square you cut in the previous step. This step will have a lot of flying ceramic pieces, so make sure your glasses are on properly.
# Some measurement of the toilet, and where the bolts will go is now in order. You should be able to place the soft steel w/nut under the toilet, and review that the threaded rod will fit before curing it in place with grout. Use a marker to assist in placement by making lines that intersect where the nut will go.
# Once you are confident the measurements are correct, grout the steel into the floor with the nut.
# Wait for the grout to cure (12-24 hours)
[[File:Soft steel and stainless with putty and grout.jpg|150px|thumb|right|End result, with grout holding steel in place. Note the putty is over the top of the nut to hold it without biting into it.]]
# Place the toilet.
# Put the threaded rod in the floor nuts.
# Put a washer and nut on the threaded rod.

===Notes===
Always place a nut on the threaded rod before cutting it, so you can get the threads properly grooved out after it's cut. Otherwise you will have to use a tap and die set to regroove where it's cut.

Stainless Steel bar could be used, but it's much harder to cut. You will need carbide or proper bits. There are drill bit charts such as the MSC catalog, which show what metals need what type of drill bit.

The putty adheres well to solid steel, but not as much to the stainless (I may have not scratched the stainless nut enough). So in this case, we will make sure to put the putty over the top of the nut to hold it in place.

One advantage of the putty is that it cures faster. Where as you could use grout for everything here, it will take a bit longer for the grout to properly cure. The putty will cure a bit faster than that (I can't speak for full strength, however). Curing speed of the putty will depend on amount of catalyst used, though I try to use less, rather than more.

[[File:Toilet floor bolts Putty not over top of nut.webm||100|]]
[[File:Putty SoftSteel Toilet floor bolts.webm||100|]]

===End Result===
The putty adhered well to the soft steel, but did not adhere as well to the stainless. This may have been due to me not preparing the stainless surface properly. Because it is so hard, you may need to take extra care to scratch off the outside layer. As a result, one of the pieces of steel had the nut fall out and the putty did not hold it in properly. Instead I went with the third and final approach. Third times the charm.

==Best Approach: Steel bar, Concrete screws, and Welding==
* Take a piece of mild steel bar (stainless would be better if you have carbide bits)
* Drill holes in the mild steel around the center, where you will later use concrete screws to hold the steel in the concrete subfloor. A drill press works best.
* Remove the toilet, put it aside.
* Break up the tiles underneath the toilet with a hammer / screwdriver, or angle grinder, or whatever chisel type tools you have available. You want to make rectangles just slightly bigger than the steel bar.
* Position the steel bar under the toilet in the holes prepared.
* Use concrete screws and get it solidly adhered to the floor (you will need an appropriate masonry bit to drill preholes, but any drill should work, you don't necessarily need a concrete / hammer drill. A normal drill is ok. Get extra masonry bits as they break easy (this kind of work should have coolant on the bit, but that's impractical here)). I use 3/16 drill bits and 1/4 concrete screws. The tapcon ones sell separate drill bits, and I've found that the socket tapcon screws are much better than the philips head type. You may need a socket set or a wrench.
* Put the bottom half of the toilet back (make sure it is making a tight seal with the floor or wall flange, if this is a rear exit toilet) and mark with a sharpie where the Toilet holes will go on the soft steel. There should besome space so that the nut or any of the screws won't cause the toilet to stick up from the floor.
* Weld a stainless nut just over the sharpie mark. (protect it from weld spatter)
* Put the toilet back. Make sure it is flush with the floor.
* Thread a cut piece of stainless rod in the toilet hole and into the nut.
* Put another nut w/washer on the rod.

That is the best approach. There is no need to use putty or epoxy. It's best to weld the nut after the toilet is placed, to make
placement easier. Otherwise you may have some headache trying to adjust where the hole will line up with the toilet. A quick internet
search says that toilet floor bolts are not standardized. A flux core welder can be rented from hardware stores if necessary.

I suppose epoxy or resin could be used to hold bolts, but I found that putting a nut below the toilet, and then using threaded rod to go through the toilet bolt hole to the nut below was more modular. For a bottom exit toilet, it may not matter, but for a rear entry toilet, the placement of 4 bolts (instead of just 2) is more difficult, so this is what works for me.

===Hindsight===
I suspect, that the epoxy resin we use is not suitable for holding bolts. It is a type of flooring epoxy. However, anchoring cement or polyester resin in concrete should work better. Though my attempt with a stainless nut and resin here did not work, I did have success with stainless bolts and a concrete wall. Please see the other [[Application Notes]].

[[Category:Application notes]]

Epoxy for Bathroom Bolt Replacement

2026-02-27T10:23:00Z

Advance: /* Hindsight */

This is a story about trying to replace floor bolts on a rear exit toilet. The first attempt was to use epoxy to put new bolts into a preexisting tiled bathroom floor. The epoxy approach ended up not turning out properly (due to user error), and instead Polyester Resin based Hull and Deck Putty attached to a piece of mild steel and a stainless nut was used instead as an adhesive. Then this also failed, and instead of using any kind of resin here (which was too difficult to adhere to the stainless), simple welding and concrete screws were used. While all of these approaches could potentially work if done properly, the easiest thing was to weld and use concrete screws.

The epoxy approach was not taken seriously enough, the bolts were not put deep enough into the floor, and the measurements were incorrect, the polyester approach was flawed due to differences in bonding between mild steel (which adhered well to the putty) and improperly prepared stainless (which did not stick to the putty). The final approach turned out to be the right answer here. Note that we actually sell a resin designed to work with concrete anchors, but I didn't use that here. That will have to wait for another day. Concrete screws are good enough for an indoor residential toilet.

==Overview==

The toilet has four bolts. Two on the back, and two on the bottom. It is a toilet which exits out the back (a rear outlet toilet). The two bottom bolts have rusted out over time. The two back bolts are still intact. The goal will be to somehow replace the floor bolts. This project did not turn out correctly the first time, so there will be two approaches documented here.

'''Concerns:'''
* The old bolts will be rusted, only until they go into the floor, at which point they will be solid bolts.
* Replacement of the tile/subfloor is not practical. We just want to change out the bolts.
* The new bolts must be set in epoxy/glue/adhesive strong enough to keep the toilet from moving.

==Approach One: Epoxy bolts into the floor==

===Items needed===
* Two Part Epoxy (Part A is base resin. Part B is hardener)
* Acetone (cleanup)
* Brass/Stainless nuts and bolts of appropriate length
* Washers
* Basic tools for removal of toilet (various wrenches, screwdriver, socket set).

===Removal of toilet===
The removal of the toilet here is relatively easy. It required a flat head screwdriver (for tank bolts) and a ratchet set to hold the bolt stead. There are also the drain bolts which require pliers or a wrench. The trickier part is putting it back together, without a leak. Certain parts of the toilet are prone to leaking, so a wax ring (I've been told these are made of beeswax) is used, and some wax put on
any seals that may leak (the bolts that hold the top tank as well as the center top tank outlet are coated with some wax).

===Preparation===
Items required were purchased from the hardware store. This job required at least:
* Brass bolts
* Brass nuts
* stainless or brass washers
* Two Part Epoxy 
And you should have some basic tools, including a hand drill, and drill bits. The plan will be to drill a hole into the ceramic tile, fill the hole with epoxy, let cure, then do at least one more layer of epoxy after the first.

Buy different lengths of bolts. I bought 1.5" and 2". I ended up using the 2". What length to use will depend upon your floor. Also measure the toilet tank bolt hole diameter, and do not buy a bolt bigger than what will fit through the toilet!
[[File:DrillbitsUsedforTiledFloor.JPG|300px|thumb|right|These bits were used to drill into the floor. Ideally, you would have a press not a hand drill, but a hand drill will do the job.]]

===Drilling into Tile===
Drilling into tile seemed easy. The old bolts were still in the tile. I did not remove those, but drilled adjacent to them. Ideally I would've drilled through the old bolts (which were only rusted on top) but this proved too difficult without a drill press to stabilize. I ended up angling the bolts slightly, and tested a fit beforehand to confirm that it would work, by placing the toilet over the bolts which were blue taped into position.

===Epoxy Layering===
After placing the bolts, and mixing / pouring the two part epoxy, I used blue tape to hold the bolts in proper position. After at least 12 hours (I waited overnight) the bolts were checked, confirmed to be firm and then I gambled. I poured the next layer of mixed epoxy onto the base of the bolts, and then placed the toilet back on, while the bolts were still curing. I do not recommend this, but due to time constraints, I wanted to get the toilet back into working order.
[[File:Epoxy_bolt_acetone_to_clean.JPG|300px|thumb|right|Acetone is necessary for cleanup. Here a $2 bottle from the grocery store will do in a pinch, as I didn't have any of the more pure stuff we sell. Caution: Flammable!]]
By carefully placing the toilet, as to not break the first epoxy bond, I was then ready to re-assemble the toilet, and let the 2nd layer of epoxy fully cure. I waited again, overnight.

It should be noted that when placing the first layer of epoxy in the tile, and its subfloor (likely hardy board), that much of the first layer soaked into the subfloor. This was another reason for the 2nd coat. I wanted to ensure the bolts did not come loose. They were cured into the tile, but the left bolt was less so than the right. A 2nd layer, ensured the epoxy was set.

===How Thick Can the Epoxy Be Layered?===
I know from my experiments with silicone molds - not too thick. The epoxy we sell is not for making 3"x3"x3" cubes, it's for using as a protective layer for floors or similar such usage. Maybe 8mm thick is a good place to stay under.

===Cleanup===
Let me emphasize the necessity of acetone for cleanup.

Upon pouring the first layer, there was some overspill from the epoxy, as it settled into the tile/subfloor. This epoxy if not cured, would've put some millimeters on the tile, and possibly upset the toilet from sitting flat. Acetone is the best way to clean 'uncured' epoxy in this situation. It will clean up neatly, and can be purchased from Advance Coatings (better quality) or from Grocery Stores (low quality). See [[Acetone]], for more details.

===Reassembly of toilet===
<pre>
attachment of washer + nut
tighten 'handtight', then finish with a few turns (not too many) with wrench.
cleanup
job complete
</pre>
[[File:DSCN0096.JPG|300px|thumb|right|Bolts Replaced]]

===Approach One Conclusion: 12/2020===
The epoxy bolts weren't placed appropriately, (bad measurement) they were angled slightly, and also due to not drilling deep enough the bolts were not held strongly enough into the floor. So this approach did not pan out in the end.

====What would a plumber do?====
I asked the opinion of a plumber on how to replace these, and he said they would simply drill down into the concrete with longer bolts, from the top of the toilet after installing. I then asked him, what would they do when the toilet needed to be removed, and he said drill even deeper bolts after replacing it. Of course, that can't go on forever, so at some point, you end up through the floor. (This is a limitation of my residence, and not of necessarily all homes). The plumbers are busy men, and they don't have time to make a project out of the bolt replacement, so sometimes their solutions are rushed more than someone with enough time to experiment can do. So let's return back to this problem in 2023.

==Approach Two: 2023 Polyester Putty and Mild Steel ==
The toilet has been mostly ok for the past couple years, but it is not as solid as it should be without floor bolts. I delayed this project for a long time, because I wasn't sure just how I could properly do this, without a repeat of the first approach. I got into welding, and starting buying mild steel (which I will refer to as soft steel for the remainder of this document) at the local metal supermarket, when I realized a more robust solution.

===Plan===
Instead of trying to set bolts in the floor, I would somehow set a nut below the toilet, and then use threaded rod to thread into the nut from above (with the toilet already placed), finally placing a nut on top of the rod to hold the toilet in place. This way I don't have to worry about placement of the toilet bolt without the toilet in place. I can place the nut, adjust it so there is a good fit to the toilet bolt holes, and then set everything in place. (This is a limitation of rear outlet toilets, as you have to set the floor bolts AND the back bolts properly. Where as a normal toilet, you only have to set two bolts. With four bolts there is less margin for error).

To go into details on this approach: I would put a nut on a piece of soft steel with adhesive (in this case I used Polyester Resin putty, although epoxy probably could've been used). and then the soft steel would be held in the tile with some premixed grout (I considered using Putty, but it doesn't bond to ceramic, so grout was a better choice). Any reasonably multi purpose bathroom concrete / tile mix would probably work. Sanded (not non-sanded) grout, should be used.

With a nut securely held below the toilet, you can cut a piece of threaded rod (stainless) and then fit it after the toilet has been
placed, putting another nut on top of it, to hold it in place.

Using threaded rod, instead of bolts was a better solution, as the threaded rod can be cut to size.

===Items Needed===
* Proper eye, ear, and face protection (ideally a welding helmet)
* Angle grinder or bandsaw
* Stainless threaded rod
* Stainless nut
* Adhesive (Polyester Hull and Deck Putty was used here)
* Sanded grout
* Soft (mild) steel bar cut to size
* File or someway to scratch the steel and nut.

===Steps===

# Drill out a part of the soft steel so there is a place for the nut to sit. This is optional, and depends how much space you have below the toilet.
# Mix a small paper cup of putty with some MEKP catalyst.
# Use putty to hold the nut on the soft steel. Make sure not to get any putty on the threads of the nut, or where the threaded rod has to go. However the putty should be over the top of the nut, not just on the sides. If you only put putty on the sides, and it doesn't adhere to the hard stainless, the nut may be able to be pulled upwards.
[[File:Soft steel and stainelss with putty.jpg|150px|thumb|right|Putty adheres to soft steel, but not as well to stainless with just a basic file.]]
# Wait until the putty cures. It should be placed slightly over the top of the nut, but not over the threads. See the pictures.
# Cut threaded rod to an appropriate size for a floor bolt. How long will depend on how low the soft steel and nut will be below the toilet. Because the threaded rod is threaded on, 'after', the toilet is in place, it can be longer than a standard floor bolt.
# Mark off a square where you will remove the tile. It should be sized slightly larger than the piece of soft steel.
# Use an angle grinder, and ideally an abrasive diamond blade (although in a pinch, a standard metal cut off wheel will work. Wear proper protection.) and cut the lines you marked off previously
# Use a hammer and or some type of chisel (A screw driver will work in a pinch) to remove the tile within the square you cut in the previous step. This step will have a lot of flying ceramic pieces, so make sure your glasses are on properly.
# Some measurement of the toilet, and where the bolts will go is now in order. You should be able to place the soft steel w/nut under the toilet, and review that the threaded rod will fit before curing it in place with grout. Use a marker to assist in placement by making lines that intersect where the nut will go.
# Once you are confident the measurements are correct, grout the steel into the floor with the nut.
# Wait for the grout to cure (12-24 hours)
[[File:Soft steel and stainless with putty and grout.jpg|150px|thumb|right|End result, with grout holding steel in place. Note the putty is over the top of the nut to hold it without biting into it.]]
# Place the toilet.
# Put the threaded rod in the floor nuts.
# Put a washer and nut on the threaded rod.

===Notes===
Always place a nut on the threaded rod before cutting it, so you can get the threads properly grooved out after it's cut. Otherwise you will have to use a tap and die set to regroove where it's cut.

Stainless Steel bar could be used, but it's much harder to cut. You will need carbide or proper bits. There are drill bit charts such as the MSC catalog, which show what metals need what type of drill bit.

The putty adheres well to solid steel, but not as much to the stainless (I may have not scratched the stainless nut enough). So in this case, we will make sure to put the putty over the top of the nut to hold it in place.

One advantage of the putty is that it cures faster. Where as you could use grout for everything here, it will take a bit longer for the grout to properly cure. The putty will cure a bit faster than that (I can't speak for full strength, however). Curing speed of the putty will depend on amount of catalyst used, though I try to use less, rather than more.

[[File:Toilet floor bolts Putty not over top of nut.webm||100|]]
[[File:Putty SoftSteel Toilet floor bolts.webm||100|]]

===End Result===
The putty adhered well to the soft steel, but did not adhere as well to the stainless. This may have been due to me not preparing the stainless surface properly. Because it is so hard, you may need to take extra care to scratch off the outside layer. As a result, one of the pieces of steel had the nut fall out and the putty did not hold it in properly. Instead I went with the third and final approach. Third times the charm.

==Best Approach: Steel bar, Concrete screws, and Welding==
* Take a piece of mild steel bar (stainless would be better if you have carbide bits)
* Drill holes in the mild steel around the center, where you will later use concrete screws to hold the steel in the concrete subfloor. A drill press works best.
* Remove the toilet, put it aside.
* Break up the tiles underneath the toilet with a hammer / screwdriver, or angle grinder, or whatever chisel type tools you have available. You want to make rectangles just slightly bigger than the steel bar.
* Position the steel bar under the toilet in the holes prepared.
* Use concrete screws and get it solidly adhered to the floor (you will need an appropriate masonry bit to drill preholes, but any drill should work, you don't necessarily need a concrete / hammer drill. A normal drill is ok. Get extra masonry bits as they break easy (this kind of work should have coolant on the bit, but that's impractical here)). I use 3/16 drill bits and 1/4 concrete screws. The tapcon ones sell separate drill bits, and I've found that the socket tapcon screws are much better than the philips head type. You may need a socket set or a wrench.
* Put the bottom half of the toilet back (make sure it is making a tight seal with the floor or wall flange, if this is a rear exit toilet) and mark with a sharpie where the Toilet holes will go on the soft steel. There should besome space so that the nut or any of the screws won't cause the toilet to stick up from the floor.
* Weld a stainless nut just over the sharpie mark. (protect it from weld spatter)
* Put the toilet back. Make sure it is flush with the floor.
* Thread a cut piece of stainless rod in the toilet hole and into the nut.
* Put another nut w/washer on the rod.

That is the best approach. There is no need to use putty or epoxy. It's best to weld the nut after the toilet is placed, to make
placement easier. Otherwise you may have some headache trying to adjust where the hole will line up with the toilet. A quick internet
search says that toilet floor bolts are not standardized. A flux core welder can be rented from hardware stores if necessary.

I suppose epoxy or resin could be used to hold bolts, but I found that putting a nut below the toilet, and then using threaded rod to go through the toilet bolt hole to the nut below was more modular. For a bottom exit toilet, it may not matter, but for a rear entry toilet, the placement of 4 bolts (instead of just 2) is more difficult, so this is what works for me.

===Hindsight===
I suspect, that the epoxy resin we use is not suitable for holding bolts. It is a type of flooring epoxy. However, anchoring cement or polyester resin in concrete should work better. Please see the other [[Application Notes]].

[[Category:Application notes]]

Epoxy for Bathroom Bolt Replacement

2026-02-27T10:21:56Z

Advance: /* Best Approach: Steel bar, Concrete screws, and Welding */

This is a story about trying to replace floor bolts on a rear exit toilet. The first attempt was to use epoxy to put new bolts into a preexisting tiled bathroom floor. The epoxy approach ended up not turning out properly (due to user error), and instead Polyester Resin based Hull and Deck Putty attached to a piece of mild steel and a stainless nut was used instead as an adhesive. Then this also failed, and instead of using any kind of resin here (which was too difficult to adhere to the stainless), simple welding and concrete screws were used. While all of these approaches could potentially work if done properly, the easiest thing was to weld and use concrete screws.

The epoxy approach was not taken seriously enough, the bolts were not put deep enough into the floor, and the measurements were incorrect, the polyester approach was flawed due to differences in bonding between mild steel (which adhered well to the putty) and improperly prepared stainless (which did not stick to the putty). The final approach turned out to be the right answer here. Note that we actually sell a resin designed to work with concrete anchors, but I didn't use that here. That will have to wait for another day. Concrete screws are good enough for an indoor residential toilet.

==Overview==

The toilet has four bolts. Two on the back, and two on the bottom. It is a toilet which exits out the back (a rear outlet toilet). The two bottom bolts have rusted out over time. The two back bolts are still intact. The goal will be to somehow replace the floor bolts. This project did not turn out correctly the first time, so there will be two approaches documented here.

'''Concerns:'''
* The old bolts will be rusted, only until they go into the floor, at which point they will be solid bolts.
* Replacement of the tile/subfloor is not practical. We just want to change out the bolts.
* The new bolts must be set in epoxy/glue/adhesive strong enough to keep the toilet from moving.

==Approach One: Epoxy bolts into the floor==

===Items needed===
* Two Part Epoxy (Part A is base resin. Part B is hardener)
* Acetone (cleanup)
* Brass/Stainless nuts and bolts of appropriate length
* Washers
* Basic tools for removal of toilet (various wrenches, screwdriver, socket set).

===Removal of toilet===
The removal of the toilet here is relatively easy. It required a flat head screwdriver (for tank bolts) and a ratchet set to hold the bolt stead. There are also the drain bolts which require pliers or a wrench. The trickier part is putting it back together, without a leak. Certain parts of the toilet are prone to leaking, so a wax ring (I've been told these are made of beeswax) is used, and some wax put on
any seals that may leak (the bolts that hold the top tank as well as the center top tank outlet are coated with some wax).

===Preparation===
Items required were purchased from the hardware store. This job required at least:
* Brass bolts
* Brass nuts
* stainless or brass washers
* Two Part Epoxy 
And you should have some basic tools, including a hand drill, and drill bits. The plan will be to drill a hole into the ceramic tile, fill the hole with epoxy, let cure, then do at least one more layer of epoxy after the first.

Buy different lengths of bolts. I bought 1.5" and 2". I ended up using the 2". What length to use will depend upon your floor. Also measure the toilet tank bolt hole diameter, and do not buy a bolt bigger than what will fit through the toilet!
[[File:DrillbitsUsedforTiledFloor.JPG|300px|thumb|right|These bits were used to drill into the floor. Ideally, you would have a press not a hand drill, but a hand drill will do the job.]]

===Drilling into Tile===
Drilling into tile seemed easy. The old bolts were still in the tile. I did not remove those, but drilled adjacent to them. Ideally I would've drilled through the old bolts (which were only rusted on top) but this proved too difficult without a drill press to stabilize. I ended up angling the bolts slightly, and tested a fit beforehand to confirm that it would work, by placing the toilet over the bolts which were blue taped into position.

===Epoxy Layering===
After placing the bolts, and mixing / pouring the two part epoxy, I used blue tape to hold the bolts in proper position. After at least 12 hours (I waited overnight) the bolts were checked, confirmed to be firm and then I gambled. I poured the next layer of mixed epoxy onto the base of the bolts, and then placed the toilet back on, while the bolts were still curing. I do not recommend this, but due to time constraints, I wanted to get the toilet back into working order.
[[File:Epoxy_bolt_acetone_to_clean.JPG|300px|thumb|right|Acetone is necessary for cleanup. Here a $2 bottle from the grocery store will do in a pinch, as I didn't have any of the more pure stuff we sell. Caution: Flammable!]]
By carefully placing the toilet, as to not break the first epoxy bond, I was then ready to re-assemble the toilet, and let the 2nd layer of epoxy fully cure. I waited again, overnight.

It should be noted that when placing the first layer of epoxy in the tile, and its subfloor (likely hardy board), that much of the first layer soaked into the subfloor. This was another reason for the 2nd coat. I wanted to ensure the bolts did not come loose. They were cured into the tile, but the left bolt was less so than the right. A 2nd layer, ensured the epoxy was set.

===How Thick Can the Epoxy Be Layered?===
I know from my experiments with silicone molds - not too thick. The epoxy we sell is not for making 3"x3"x3" cubes, it's for using as a protective layer for floors or similar such usage. Maybe 8mm thick is a good place to stay under.

===Cleanup===
Let me emphasize the necessity of acetone for cleanup.

Upon pouring the first layer, there was some overspill from the epoxy, as it settled into the tile/subfloor. This epoxy if not cured, would've put some millimeters on the tile, and possibly upset the toilet from sitting flat. Acetone is the best way to clean 'uncured' epoxy in this situation. It will clean up neatly, and can be purchased from Advance Coatings (better quality) or from Grocery Stores (low quality). See [[Acetone]], for more details.

===Reassembly of toilet===
<pre>
attachment of washer + nut
tighten 'handtight', then finish with a few turns (not too many) with wrench.
cleanup
job complete
</pre>
[[File:DSCN0096.JPG|300px|thumb|right|Bolts Replaced]]

===Approach One Conclusion: 12/2020===
The epoxy bolts weren't placed appropriately, (bad measurement) they were angled slightly, and also due to not drilling deep enough the bolts were not held strongly enough into the floor. So this approach did not pan out in the end.

====What would a plumber do?====
I asked the opinion of a plumber on how to replace these, and he said they would simply drill down into the concrete with longer bolts, from the top of the toilet after installing. I then asked him, what would they do when the toilet needed to be removed, and he said drill even deeper bolts after replacing it. Of course, that can't go on forever, so at some point, you end up through the floor. (This is a limitation of my residence, and not of necessarily all homes). The plumbers are busy men, and they don't have time to make a project out of the bolt replacement, so sometimes their solutions are rushed more than someone with enough time to experiment can do. So let's return back to this problem in 2023.

==Approach Two: 2023 Polyester Putty and Mild Steel ==
The toilet has been mostly ok for the past couple years, but it is not as solid as it should be without floor bolts. I delayed this project for a long time, because I wasn't sure just how I could properly do this, without a repeat of the first approach. I got into welding, and starting buying mild steel (which I will refer to as soft steel for the remainder of this document) at the local metal supermarket, when I realized a more robust solution.

===Plan===
Instead of trying to set bolts in the floor, I would somehow set a nut below the toilet, and then use threaded rod to thread into the nut from above (with the toilet already placed), finally placing a nut on top of the rod to hold the toilet in place. This way I don't have to worry about placement of the toilet bolt without the toilet in place. I can place the nut, adjust it so there is a good fit to the toilet bolt holes, and then set everything in place. (This is a limitation of rear outlet toilets, as you have to set the floor bolts AND the back bolts properly. Where as a normal toilet, you only have to set two bolts. With four bolts there is less margin for error).

To go into details on this approach: I would put a nut on a piece of soft steel with adhesive (in this case I used Polyester Resin putty, although epoxy probably could've been used). and then the soft steel would be held in the tile with some premixed grout (I considered using Putty, but it doesn't bond to ceramic, so grout was a better choice). Any reasonably multi purpose bathroom concrete / tile mix would probably work. Sanded (not non-sanded) grout, should be used.

With a nut securely held below the toilet, you can cut a piece of threaded rod (stainless) and then fit it after the toilet has been
placed, putting another nut on top of it, to hold it in place.

Using threaded rod, instead of bolts was a better solution, as the threaded rod can be cut to size.

===Items Needed===
* Proper eye, ear, and face protection (ideally a welding helmet)
* Angle grinder or bandsaw
* Stainless threaded rod
* Stainless nut
* Adhesive (Polyester Hull and Deck Putty was used here)
* Sanded grout
* Soft (mild) steel bar cut to size
* File or someway to scratch the steel and nut.

===Steps===

# Drill out a part of the soft steel so there is a place for the nut to sit. This is optional, and depends how much space you have below the toilet.
# Mix a small paper cup of putty with some MEKP catalyst.
# Use putty to hold the nut on the soft steel. Make sure not to get any putty on the threads of the nut, or where the threaded rod has to go. However the putty should be over the top of the nut, not just on the sides. If you only put putty on the sides, and it doesn't adhere to the hard stainless, the nut may be able to be pulled upwards.
[[File:Soft steel and stainelss with putty.jpg|150px|thumb|right|Putty adheres to soft steel, but not as well to stainless with just a basic file.]]
# Wait until the putty cures. It should be placed slightly over the top of the nut, but not over the threads. See the pictures.
# Cut threaded rod to an appropriate size for a floor bolt. How long will depend on how low the soft steel and nut will be below the toilet. Because the threaded rod is threaded on, 'after', the toilet is in place, it can be longer than a standard floor bolt.
# Mark off a square where you will remove the tile. It should be sized slightly larger than the piece of soft steel.
# Use an angle grinder, and ideally an abrasive diamond blade (although in a pinch, a standard metal cut off wheel will work. Wear proper protection.) and cut the lines you marked off previously
# Use a hammer and or some type of chisel (A screw driver will work in a pinch) to remove the tile within the square you cut in the previous step. This step will have a lot of flying ceramic pieces, so make sure your glasses are on properly.
# Some measurement of the toilet, and where the bolts will go is now in order. You should be able to place the soft steel w/nut under the toilet, and review that the threaded rod will fit before curing it in place with grout. Use a marker to assist in placement by making lines that intersect where the nut will go.
# Once you are confident the measurements are correct, grout the steel into the floor with the nut.
# Wait for the grout to cure (12-24 hours)
[[File:Soft steel and stainless with putty and grout.jpg|150px|thumb|right|End result, with grout holding steel in place. Note the putty is over the top of the nut to hold it without biting into it.]]
# Place the toilet.
# Put the threaded rod in the floor nuts.
# Put a washer and nut on the threaded rod.

===Notes===
Always place a nut on the threaded rod before cutting it, so you can get the threads properly grooved out after it's cut. Otherwise you will have to use a tap and die set to regroove where it's cut.

Stainless Steel bar could be used, but it's much harder to cut. You will need carbide or proper bits. There are drill bit charts such as the MSC catalog, which show what metals need what type of drill bit.

The putty adheres well to solid steel, but not as much to the stainless (I may have not scratched the stainless nut enough). So in this case, we will make sure to put the putty over the top of the nut to hold it in place.

One advantage of the putty is that it cures faster. Where as you could use grout for everything here, it will take a bit longer for the grout to properly cure. The putty will cure a bit faster than that (I can't speak for full strength, however). Curing speed of the putty will depend on amount of catalyst used, though I try to use less, rather than more.

[[File:Toilet floor bolts Putty not over top of nut.webm||100|]]
[[File:Putty SoftSteel Toilet floor bolts.webm||100|]]

===End Result===
The putty adhered well to the soft steel, but did not adhere as well to the stainless. This may have been due to me not preparing the stainless surface properly. Because it is so hard, you may need to take extra care to scratch off the outside layer. As a result, one of the pieces of steel had the nut fall out and the putty did not hold it in properly. Instead I went with the third and final approach. Third times the charm.

==Best Approach: Steel bar, Concrete screws, and Welding==
* Take a piece of mild steel bar (stainless would be better if you have carbide bits)
* Drill holes in the mild steel around the center, where you will later use concrete screws to hold the steel in the concrete subfloor. A drill press works best.
* Remove the toilet, put it aside.
* Break up the tiles underneath the toilet with a hammer / screwdriver, or angle grinder, or whatever chisel type tools you have available. You want to make rectangles just slightly bigger than the steel bar.
* Position the steel bar under the toilet in the holes prepared.
* Use concrete screws and get it solidly adhered to the floor (you will need an appropriate masonry bit to drill preholes, but any drill should work, you don't necessarily need a concrete / hammer drill. A normal drill is ok. Get extra masonry bits as they break easy (this kind of work should have coolant on the bit, but that's impractical here)). I use 3/16 drill bits and 1/4 concrete screws. The tapcon ones sell separate drill bits, and I've found that the socket tapcon screws are much better than the philips head type. You may need a socket set or a wrench.
* Put the bottom half of the toilet back (make sure it is making a tight seal with the floor or wall flange, if this is a rear exit toilet) and mark with a sharpie where the Toilet holes will go on the soft steel. There should besome space so that the nut or any of the screws won't cause the toilet to stick up from the floor.
* Weld a stainless nut just over the sharpie mark. (protect it from weld spatter)
* Put the toilet back. Make sure it is flush with the floor.
* Thread a cut piece of stainless rod in the toilet hole and into the nut.
* Put another nut w/washer on the rod.

That is the best approach. There is no need to use putty or epoxy. It's best to weld the nut after the toilet is placed, to make
placement easier. Otherwise you may have some headache trying to adjust where the hole will line up with the toilet. A quick internet
search says that toilet floor bolts are not standardized. A flux core welder can be rented from hardware stores if necessary.

I suppose epoxy or resin could be used to hold bolts, but I found that putting a nut below the toilet, and then using threaded rod to go through the toilet bolt hole to the nut below was more modular. For a bottom exit toilet, it may not matter, but for a rear entry toilet, the placement of 4 bolts (instead of just 2) is more difficult, so this is what works for me.

===Hindsight===
I suspect, that the epoxy resin we use is not suitable for holding bolts. It is a type of flooring epoxy. However, anchoring cement or polyester resin should work better. Please see the other [[Application Notes]].

[[Category:Application notes]]

Epoxy for Bathroom Bolt Replacement

2026-02-27T10:20:16Z

Advance: /* Best Approach: Steel bar, Concrete screws, and Welding */

Anchoring Cement Application

2026-02-27T10:19:22Z

Advance:

Aliphatic Urethane for Hardwood Floor Refinishing

2026-02-27T10:18:49Z

Advance: